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Domai at the Nexus: The Power of Intimidate

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  • Domai at the Nexus: The Power of Intimidate

    What are the weaknesses of the Drones? -2 Research and an inability to run Green. At first glance these curses seem negligable, but then you remember that -2 Research means no research for the first 10 years. Ouch. And then you remember that early worm-powered exploration are why you love the Gaians so much.

    Welcome to the Manifold Nexus Domai

    I've recently been playing a bunch of Drones games, looking for that perfect early start for the high-score charts. Of all the landmarks, I've found the Nexus to be second only to the Jungle (of course). This has to do with gaining early control of the other factions and using them as tech slaves. But with the Drones --Research, this takes a bit of finesse, er, well, it takes 15 years of being nice and aloof.

    A little history of some explorations into playing for score: Upon getting the Planetary Pack, and finally having access to SMAX for the first time, I was both excited and put-off by the new factions. They aren't balanced in the same way that the Smac factions are. Recently the re-appearance of the Hall of Fame has prompted me to have a go at a few games for score. At first I played with the Cybernetic Consciousness, which is obviously far and away the strongest faction in Smax (again, a lack of balance is a little annoying). But then I tried the Aliens, and was surprised to find myself actually liking them for an all out score-fest. The huge obstacle is their lack of commerce. I found this made them a bit boring for this type of game. I'd never played the Drones, so I gave them a try....

    About my second game (large land map, lots of fungus, ironman, yes-Unity Survey, directed research, no-Look First), I happened to land right between the jungle and the Nexus, next to a big river system. I'm still playing that game for score, but I've since tried a few more games with the Nexus in range of the landing site, just to see how well I could do with it. So here's the basic idea:

    Land and found HQ:
    Must not use the look-first option if playing a land only map. The AI gets too confused and some wander around without ever founding a single base. To play for score, you want every AI to do well, so you can use them for trade and tech.

    Send Second CP --> Manifold Nexus:
    If the Nexus isn't in your territory, you won't get it's +1 Planet. Also, you need to 'discover' it by having explored at least 1 tile of the nexus-proper with a unit. In my high-score game, the Nexus is a few tiles outside my original territory, so I send the Colony Pod there.

    Build Worm Army:
    At the second base, the first scout goes to oggle the nexus, activating it. Then the fun begins. On a large map, it's easy to get 2-5 native units captured in the first 10 years. Use these to race to meet the other factions.

    I greet you Roze, Aki, Chewed-On, and Sven:
    You won't be able to talk to the aliens for awhile, so there's not much use in greeting them. Instead, find the other factions. Don't trade anything with them until you've discovered your first tech ~2116. There is no reason not to make this Centauri Ecology.

    ICSing on the Domai Cake:
    While your worm army builds itself and you pop pods on the way to meeting the other humans, your first two bases should become your first 4, then first 8. By 2125 - 2130 you should be way ahead in # of bases, if not overall population. Remember that Domai gets 1 drone made content per base. This means ICSing without a garrison is easy.

    I'll take that tech, thank you very much: About this time you should also have a stronger military than all the other humans, except for Sven, who prides himself on being unattackable in his pond . But between the other 3, you should now be able to Intimidate them. Get Social Psych and possibly Ethical Calculus from Chaw-Dawn. Get PlaNets, InfoNets, Applied Physics from the CyCon. And get something out of Roze. But do this with care.

    The trick is to get yourself to Industrial Automation by researching Centauri Ecology, then Industrial Economics, then Industrial Automation. Yeah, that sounds weird. By bluffing your way to Planetary Networks, and possibly even IndEcon, you can cut the research b-line in half. You start with Industrial Base, unlike any other faction (no Morgan in a normal game). Use this to your advantage. Here are my seven secrets of successful Drone-powered Intimidation:
    • Use the power of the Manifold Nexus to gain the biggest military and population. This makes all the AI into weak-kneed cowards, ripe for Intimidating. This works without the nexus, but it's very much easier with the free army.
    • Gift techs to the AI until they become Submissive, or at least Magnanimous. Then demand Tech for not 'Crushing them like a bug'. Make sure to give the AI anything they are researching, even Sven and the Aliens, once you can talk to them. The idea is to never have an AI discover something that's not new to you too.
    • Wait 2 years, then repeat. They won't talk to you in the first year after a good menacing Intimidate.
    • If you can't seem to get an AI to cooperate, perhaps they are too strong? Give them lots of techs or call your bluff and invade with a worm or two.
    • If you really need capitulation and surrender from the AI, give them a base, then take it right back. They'll surrender if you are the Big Mucho Military faction.
    • Invade the AI factions at your convenience. The sooner the better though, so that you can build them up as commerce partners in safety. If any AI get's ahead of you and becomes uncooperative, use probes to get the profits of your earlier generosity, then invade them to remind them who's the Don (Dom). The power of the intimidate strategy is that it's not necessary to invade everyone straight away. You can take your time and submit one faction at a time with your worm army making a big trip around the map.


    I know a lot of that is common knowledge, but it was fun to put it all together with the Drones. Their Industry and Drone control make them a perfect builder faction. However, their lack of research makes a Momentum game difficult. But with the Nexus, even Domai can go Green for awhile. Long enough to run Planned and then Dem-Planned, and then Dem-Planned-Wealth. By the time you've dealt the death-blow to a few factions and made them subservient, you will have built all the early Secret Projects, and can then switch to Dem-FM-Wealth for the rest of the game. Until you have the other factions roped in, there isn't a point to running Free Market. You can simply take the tech you otherwise would have researched slowly. Instead, a focus on SP building and dominating the landscape will make the later switch far more profitable.

    -Smack
    Aldebaran 2.1 for Smax is in Beta Testing. Join us for our first Succession Game

  • #2
    So here's my question:

    Do you use Intimidate very often? Or do you actually take over a faction before getting it to produce techs for you?

    What's your favorite non-Alien Momentum faction?
    Aldebaran 2.1 for Smax is in Beta Testing. Join us for our first Succession Game

    Comment


    • #3
      I generally step on AIs before I ask them for anything. If one is too far away for that, I might butter it up, but my general attitude towards AIs is that they're hardly worth my notice.

      If I want to play momentum, I prefer Yang. Early on, I can ICS for a large industrial base, and then I can just pump out endless waves of mediocre units. Regarding the other momentum players:

      I don't like Miriam. The Believers are okay, but I'd still rather have Yang.

      I really don't like the -industry of the Spartans or Fungboy.

      I get bored whenever I play the aliens.

      Still, I'm usually content to build, as it's more entertaining than conquering, and in a multiplayer game, it's usually better to help yourself than hurt another.
      "Cutlery confused Stalin"
      -BBC news

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by smacksim
        Do you use Intimidate very often?
        Only when I breathe.


        Originally posted by smacksim
        ....Or do you actually take over a faction before getting it to produce techs for you?
        Why? When you can intimidate them dry, then attack and make em your tech b!tch.


        Originally posted by smacksim
        What's your favorite non-Alien Momentum faction?
        You can't ask me to choose between Miriam and Santiago. That is like asking me to choose between my childern! Seriously though it is no simple decision. Santiago can easily get that steady stream of elite infantry (+75% to bases plus double move) which more than makes up for Miriams +25% attack. But Miriam under fundy can support MASSIVE former armys which between that and probes, more than make up for her -2 Research

        But if I have to choose, I find the Spartans to have the strongest military. When you absolutely, positively, have kill every mother f**ker in the room....accept no substitutes.

        Oh yea, i know you all are saying "Yang you fool!". But believe it or not, I hate playing him. To me he seems over powered, like playing the aliens. I would play them for score or MP, but I don't really enjoy them.
        Last edited by livid imp; August 26, 2004, 13:17.
        "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
        "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
        "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
        "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by smacksim
          Do you use Intimidate very often? Or do you actually take over a faction before getting it to produce techs for you?

          What's your favorite non-Alien Momentum faction?
          Being the excessive bleeding heart that I am, I never intimidate anyone. Once I started a game with the Believers with every intention of being a war-mongering offspring of a female dog, but once I simply bullied the Consciousness into submission right from the start I actually felt so bad about it that I quit and started a new game.

          I'm very weird like that.

          But my favourite momentum faction would be the Spartans. And I like playing them as builders.

          I'm very weird like that too.
          "I'm too young and too male to be the mother of a seventeen year old female me!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by WotanAnubis
            ....but once I simply bullied the Consciousness into submission right from the start I actually felt so bad about it that I quit and started a new game.
            ROFL You do know you are not actually hurting anybodies feelings, right?
            "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
            "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
            "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
            "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by livid imp
              ROFL You do know you are not actually hurting anybodies feelings, right?
              None except my own. And I did say I'm weird like that.
              "I'm too young and too male to be the mother of a seventeen year old female me!"

              Comment


              • #8
                It's just a game, the perfect opportunity to let out that evil side.

                Staple my citizens and gas my enemies!
                "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
                "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
                "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
                "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by livid imp
                  It's just a game, the perfect opportunity to let out that evil side.
                  Apparently, I don't have one. Or at least, not a very big one.

                  So, no nerve stapling, no nerve gas, no Planet Busters, no repealing of the UN Charter in the first place, not even Punishment Spheres.

                  Because I just can't shake the fact that, whenever I play a game (except maybe Pong), for the merest of moments it's all real. Or at least, real enough.
                  "I'm too young and too male to be the mother of a seventeen year old female me!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yep, I'm kind of like that too. No nerve stapling, punishment spheres, genejack factories, police states, or mind control*. I have no problems with lethal atrocities, though. I just never do them because I never remember to get the charter repealed. Dead is dead, but slavery lasts a lifetime.


                    * since it's just a game I occasionally slip on mind control if I have the cloning vats, but I usually stick to cybernetic or eudaimonic.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Give a man a fire and he's warm for a night; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life?
                      "Cutlery confused Stalin"
                      -BBC news

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Domai at the Nexus: The Power of Intimidate

                        Originally posted by smacksim
                        What are the weaknesses of the Drones? -2 Research and an inability to run Green. At first glance these curses seem negligable, but then you remember that -2 Research means no research for the first 10 years. Ouch. And then you remember that early worm-powered exploration are why you love the Gaians so much.

                        Welcome to the Manifold Nexus Domai
                        Hmmm - this gives me some very good ideas for some AI powerhouses! Thanx Smacksim!


                        D

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is such a coincidence since I've just recently discovered Domai at the Nexus too....

                          But I don't use intimidate much. And he was on an island. Nevertheless I quickly grabbed up the Maritime Control Centre, and quickly built superior naval infrastructure

                          I didn't switch to Free Market though. Basically what I did was switch to wealth, then have most of my bases achieve golden age. Trade Pact was on, anyway. I'd prefer to keep that planned because together with wealth and planned, I have +4 Industry! Except for some bases I captured that were so far away, so it'd be useless to achieve golden age anyway. (Yes, yes, you can say, switch to free market, then you can achieve +2 effic, but that's minor).

                          Anyway, I'm quite far from Eudaimonic (researching retroviral engineering), but when I do, muhahahahahaha! (I'll attempt to get Cloning Vats so I can switch to power so I come up with NO morale penalties!). If I don' (fat chance, I'm dominating everthing)t, since I have Hunter-Seeker Algorithm, I can switch to knowledge anyway.

                          But the Caretakers won't bow down! I've captured half their bases, and all they can go is a TRUCE?! What? Serve me you foo'! They never talk with me for long either, so I can't go, "to prevent me from crushing you like a bug", either.

                          Anyway, yeah, the Nexus really helps Domai. It helped me thrive in my semi-island, then get some isle of the deeps...then move on to some other coastal area when they can't go Green.

                          Regardless, I'm STILL confused. Domai, being the communist he is, should have aversions to free market, not Green.
                          Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers; arise ye prisoners of want
                          The reason for revolt now thunders; and at last ends the age of "can't"
                          Away with all your superstitions -servile masses, arise, arise!
                          We'll change forthwith the old conditions And spurn the dust to win the prize

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Why the rush to get away from Wealth? Power's only good if you're attacking someone, and Knowledge is inferior to Wealth as long as you don't have enough production and energy to finish something useful every turn in every base, or as long as you have useful things to build. But if Knowledge is better than Wealth now, don't worry about the probe penalty, and go ahead with Knowledge. It's not like the AI is very good at probing anyway.

                            As far as Aversion: Green, I think it's because he's too short-term, favoring the immediate benefit of the people over any long-term benefit.
                            "Cutlery confused Stalin"
                            -BBC news

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Why the rush to get away from Wealth? Power's only good if you're attacking someone, and Knowledge is inferior to Wealth as long as you don't have enough production and energy to finish something useful every turn in every base, or as long as you have useful things to build. But if Knowledge is better than Wealth now, don't worry about the probe penalty, and go ahead with Knowledge. It's not like the AI is very good at probing anyway.


                              Wealth + Eudaimonic yields -4 morale. Power + Eudaimonic has no morale penalty, if you have cloning vats, you get to keep the +2 industry. Not to mention, with Domai, +6 industry isn't more powerful than +5, as well. And by the time I get Eudaimonic, I want to keep the +1 Planet or so, because there is much to reap from the fungus.

                              I don't want the -4 morale to be disastrous. By choosing power + Eudaimonic + cloning vats, I can get +2 support, +2 industry, +2 Econ and +2 growth with none of the morale penalties. I still have to fight native lifeforms, and I was still at war with Marr and H'minee.

                              Since I had hunter-seeker algorithm, I could switch to knowledge without much penalty. Oh the AI is good at times. Mind control...egash!

                              As far as Aversion: Green, I think it's because he's too short-term, favoring the immediate benefit of the people over any long-term benefit.


                              Yes, but as an economic model? Free market doesn't really benefit the people much, unless one were to divert 30-40% to Psych like welfare, which might be a tad wasteful, then say, rather planned/green + eudaimonic.
                              Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers; arise ye prisoners of want
                              The reason for revolt now thunders; and at last ends the age of "can't"
                              Away with all your superstitions -servile masses, arise, arise!
                              We'll change forthwith the old conditions And spurn the dust to win the prize

                              Comment

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