Domai at the Nexus: The Power of Intimidate

[Chaos Theory]

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf

Wealth + Eudaimonic yields -4 morale. Power + Eudaimonic has no morale penalty, if you have cloning vats, you get to keep the +2 industry. Not to mention, with Domai, +6 industry isn't more powerful than +5, as well. And by the time I get Eudaimonic, I want to keep the +1 Planet or so, because there is much to reap from the fungus.

I don't want the -4 morale to be disastrous. By choosing power + Eudaimonic + cloning vats, I can get +2 support, +2 industry, +2 Econ and +2 growth with none of the morale penalties. I still have to fight native lifeforms, and I was still at war with Marr and H'minee.

-4 morale is not the killer it should be. Your troops can't get worse than very green anyway, but they should be winning when attacking since weapons are stronger than armor. Try it sometime. On defense, -4 morale is a boon where you have children's creches. I've seen units defend as Elite (++++) for +100% from morale!

+6 Industry is wasteful compared to +5, but you were arguing against the morale hit. This late in the game, I'd be inclined to run Demo/Simple/Knowledge/Cyber, because effic becomes so important. Throw in the Manifold Harmonics, and Cyber becomes a no-brainer. Industry and Econ become pretty meaningless this late, as you have more energy than you know what to do with, nothing left to build, and only tech between you and victory.

Since I had hunter-seeker algorithm, I could switch to knowledge without much penalty. Oh the AI is good at times. Mind control...egash!

Bring probe teams along! Not only do they defend against probe action, whatever your probe rating, but they let you perform offensive probe actions. Even if your probe rating is +0, the AI can mind control your undefended bases cheaply. -2 simply doesn't hurt more than +0.

As far as Aversion: Green, I think it's because he's too short-term, favoring the immediate benefit of the people over any long-term benefit.

Yes, but as an economic model? Free market doesn't really benefit the people much, unless one were to divert 30-40% to Psych like welfare, which might be a tad wasteful, then say, rather planned/green + eudaimonic.

Keep in mind you can only have one SE aversion. Which is worse, Free Market where people have to work long and hard for the benefit of the faction as a whole (presumably you don't just horde the energy), or caring for this worthless fungus at the cost of the people in Green?

[Natalinasmpf]

I suppose its not just Planet....Green is more of a long-term goal, yes. Its "saving up for the future generation", or something like that.

Industry and Econ become pretty meaningless this late, as you have more energy than you know what to do with, nothing left to build, and only tech between you and victory.

Not necessarily. I mean, for ICS'ing with colony pods that cost 15 minerals instead of 30... (or rover colony pods costing twenty).

-4 morale is not the killer it should be. Your troops can't get worse than very green anyway, but they should be winning when attacking since weapons are stronger than armor

But when eco-damage gets high, or when Planet is taking vengeance, weapon strength suddenly becomes less of an issue than morale. Actually what I wanted is not the hit to morale, but because I guess I like Elite units, and when I clinch Cyborg Factory and Command Nexus, I don't like morale penalties getting in my way.

[Whoha]

I'm generally done at that point, and each of my cities are getting atleast 100 minerals per turn(thats from orbit alone or eco damage piles up).

Heres a reason to run FM though, the longevity vaccine gives +50% econ to a city. Run that to your SSC with the Energy park and it can overcome the efficieny bonus of green.

[Natalinasmpf]

eco damage piles up

This is when morale matters.

[Whoha]

Erm I mean that my cities are all clean because all the minerals are coming from orbit and I have a lot of the clean mineral facilities.

[Chaos Theory]

Morale is not very important for dealing with late-game worm armageddeon. Just have a few string SAM artillery pieces (which do use weapon values against native life) to take out locust stacks, and a few empath scout rovers to take out ground units, and you're set. Maybe throw in an empath artillery unit depending on exactly how spore launchers work. The key is to blow away stacks, and never defend against more than a few native life per city, per turn.

Late-game, you should be able to spam 30 mineral colony pods just as easily as 15 mineral colony pods, thanks to satellite minerals and possibly other things like the Bulk Matter Transmitter (actually gives +50% minerals, rather than +2). If you can't muster the minerals, you can certainly muster the energy.

If you like elite units, go ahead and do whatever, but they aren't real important when you have a tech lead. I find myself tripping over elite units anyway late in the game, without even trying.

If you've set up a massive SSC, running FM + LV might be worth it, but I've never tried that. 20 transcendi/city do the trick just fine.

[smacksim]

I'm on my third iteration of this type of game on a large map. Now I need some advice. I'll upload some screenshots of my latest game in a bit. It's the best start I've ever had in an SP game, and it's Ironman (not that that does anything really).

Best Start Possible with the Drones

The year is 2125. I've made H'minee flee in a colony pod, destroying 1 city and capturing the other. Then, this turn, I subjegated Chaw Dawn AND Roze. My reputation is Noble . I've got 6 or so turns to IA. I've got two cities setting up for a run at the early SPs, which I'll begin really soon to get the HGP, allowing another level of ICS. I meet Aki this turn, who will be next in line for subjugation........

Advice needed: For score, population and commerce are everything. To that end, I'll be filling the map with Drones and donor bases to my (soon to be) 3 vassal states. My questions are:

• How much should I focus on building up my vassal states, and how much should I focus on just building up my own empire?
• Secondly, when, if ever, should I run FM? The Drones running Dem-Planned-Wealth are how I've played my last few games ~2180 or so, at which point I was done warring. This time I should be done with my continental wars ~2150 or so.
• Thirdly, should I build on a 2x2 grid, or a 3x3. I'm more comfortable with 2-space (3x3), largely for the utility of crawlers, but I'm sure that in the end I can pack more citizens in a 1-space (2x2) base-space-base configuration. The problem is that this is somewhat slower to develop for a lack of minerals until min-sats.
• Fourth, I've turned off Transcend victory, but I'll still have to keep one enemy alive in a corner of the map. This will surely be one of the aliens. Should I keep both aliens or eliminate one?

Pictures soon. Here's a save from 2125 if you'd like to take up the challenge of playing a game for score...

[smacksim]

The World according to Domai:

[livid imp]

Originally posted by smacksim
How much should I focus on building up my vassal states, and how much should I focus on just building up my own empire?

Here is the Livid Imp rule to subdued pactmates:
Build up the builders and lose the losers.

Aki, Zach, Morgan, are all worth putting some time into to build up tech trades and commerce. The rest I let build up on there own. You can put a ton of work into Cha Dawn's land, and he'll still be a putz. I use momentum factions as war dogs. Sic them on factions you want to slow down but don't really have time to deal with yet. With the proper tech gifts, they can conquer a nearby neighbor. Right before they take the last city, go to war with the losing faction and contact them, subjugate them too, them ask your patsy factions to kiss and make up. One thing you can do to help momentum factions build is to hand over old formers to a newer city (one that is not yet supporting a dozen troops for a non-existent war).

Originally posted by smacksim
Secondly, when, if ever, should I run FM?

Yes....now...do it now Drones under FM, building all the tech enhancements they have available, will keep them up in the tech race. The efficiency hit in Planned is a killer by mid game anyway.

Originally posted by smacksim
Thirdly, should I build on a 2x2 grid, or a 3x3.

Single tile spacing is good for three reasons:

1. Uses less space - If you are on anything other than a Tiny map, this shouldn't be an issue.

2. Speed - The raw turn advantage you gain from plopping bases down in the same turn they were created. This is the only reason to consider 2x spacing when playing the AI.

3. Defense - Defense radii overlap (interceptors, aerospace complexes, fletchette defense). Reinforcements are close and can shift to cover attacked cities. Inner bases are nearly immure to attack. Since this is the AI we are talking about, this also shouldn't be an issue.

[smacksim]

Let me get some more pictures up. There was a lightning strike right next to my house last night and I had to shut everything down for fear of a fizzled computer. I've seen a phone exploded (stupidly hardwired into the phone line, which got hit), several trees exploded (near camping sites), and been zapped myself, through a phone line, so yeah, I'm cautious. Anyways....

Here's the world view @ 2125. Cycon is SE of my drones...

[smacksim]

Chaw Doomed, after I kicked out the Caretakers...

[smacksim]

Roze donated Shadow Sprawl. How clever. It was then just a matter of taking Data DeCentral with a probe-rover-worm army. Probe to declare war cleanly at Roze Function, worm to destroy her defending probe, and rover to walk in for a party....

[smacksim]

Originally posted by livid imp
Here is the Livid Imp rule to subdued pactmates:
Build up the builders and lose the losers.

A good rule. Its just tough to build them up as densely as possible while maintaining optimal territory boundaries for further expansion. I think you know what I mean....If I give them one base that isn't completely surrounded with more of my bases, their territory will prevent me from building more tightly packed bases for them in their own territory....

So this means that optimally, I need to build 4 bases to donate just 1, then surround that layer with say 6 of my bases and give up the remaining 3 interior bases. It's a big project. How should I do this and not spend all my treasure on the endeavor, quelling drones, etc.?

Originally posted by livid imp
You can put a ton of work into Cha Dawn's land, and he'll still be a putz.

Perhaps he is the one to sacrifice, once I've subjugated Sven....

Originally posted by livid imp
I use momentum factions as war dogs. Sic them on factions you want to slow down but don't really have time to deal with yet. With the proper tech gifts, they can conquer a nearby neighbor. Right before they take the last city, go to war with the losing faction and contact them, subjugate them too, them ask your patsy factions to kiss and make up. One thing you can do to help momentum factions build is to hand over old formers to a newer city (one that is not yet supporting a dozen troops for a non-existent war).

I've done this too, but I'm actually most interested in keeping them all at peace so that they build infrastructure rather than goofy units like the 4-1-8 Empath Noodle. The idea is to completely finish all warfare as soon as possible, while keeping a token enemy out of reach.

The hardest part is when one of my vassal states decides to attack another vassal state. Don't you hate it when they say: "But I've been paid for the elimination of the Cybernetic Consciousness and I intend to fulfill my debt." ARGH!!!!! I've never figured a way to change their minds on that stance. It does help if you never encourage them to war in the first place, but sometimes they'll just make war for the hell of it.

Originally posted by livid imp
Yes....now...do it now Drones under FM, building all the tech enhancements they have available, will keep them up in the tech race. The efficiency hit in Planned is a killer by mid game anyway.

There is no tech race. I own all the labs, or will shortly. This type of game takes a different strategy. Ordinarily, yeah, of course I'd run FM as soon as reasonable, but there are these reasons not to do so for awhile:

• Industry --> Crawlers Facilities Colony Pods Secret Projects
• Longevity Vaccine + Domai == 100s of drone free PTS size three bases in a very few turns. Remember, population is more important than tech for score. We just need the proper techs for infrastructure and speed of expansion...
• War on Sven will require some aircraft or at least ships. This is most easily done while in Planned rather than FM
• I can still capture more worms with the Nexus. If running FM, the Nexus is worthless. So finishing exploration and/or warfare seems best done in Planned.
• I own the other researchers. Sure, tech is very important, but I think this is one time when doubling the research rate is less important than trebbling the expansion rate.

Originally posted by livid imp
Single tile spacing is good for three reasons:

1. Uses less space - If you are on anything other than a Tiny map, this shouldn't be an issue.

2. Speed - The raw turn advantage you gain from plopping bases down in the same turn they were created. This is the only reason to consider 2x spacing when playing the AI.

3. Defense - Defense radii overlap (interceptors, aerospace complexes, fletchette defense). Reinforcements are close and can shift to cover attacked cities. Inner bases are nearly immure to attack. Since this is the AI we are talking about, this also shouldn't be an issue.

I agree with 1 and 3, but 3 is a non-issue already. It's only 1 and 2 that concern me. I want max population in min turns.

I have to disagree with you about speed. Its just not as simple as it first looks. Yes a single colony pod gets plopped faster, but shouldn't one take into consideration the speed of capturing the map with territory? Then there is the speed of getting units out of the empire to go finish off the AI. And the speed of moving crawlers to exterior resources. The speed of getting a base established on the coast to attack Sven, etc...

In this type of game I can later adopt any AI bases in my way, but it's nice to contain them. Further, there is the issue of surviving the mid-game, production wise, until Satellites. Base-space-Base spacing requires heavy terraforming and then must wait for Sats to grow past X size. I agree with your principles, but need a modified strategy for this type of game, or do I? I still see the advantage of 1-space. Mostly though I'm concerned with fencing in the AI and controlling/regulating their expansion.

Thanks for the reply. I'm at 2132 now and have about 10 turns before my units can fully engage Aki. Then I prepare for Sven by building a coastal base and shipping in resources to have it build a moderate navy. But Sven is less important than focusing on expanding my own empire and my other pactmates....

-Smack