Ideal Social Engineering Settings

[binTravkin]

even making his way into the required reading lists for some schools.

Well, those must be the ones out of sight of government officials!

[livid imp]

He was referring to colleges....you know, those schools which don't force government propaganda down young impressionable minds.....for the most part.

There is NO way Chomsky would make it into a public school these days. Too many conservative "do-gooders" sitting on school boards that are still trying to route out communism, a la McCarthy. Anything even remotely un-American can get you the shaft in the wrong school district. I remember a history teacher that got reprimanded for teaching kids that Christopher Columbus died of syphilis (which many now believe he did) instead of "natural causes" as it stated in the out dated US propaganda history book.

But really, I think that Chomsky would never be taught in a high school mainly because it is too heavy and kids simply wouldn't get it / care. I think college is an appropriate time to discover Chomsky's writings.

Like him or not, it is good to have a dissenting view point....nothing could be more American than a rebellious spirit. I agree with smacksim, if someone is trying to cover up some literature or movie, the better the chance it has something relevant and insightful to say. There is no reason to cover up outright lies, they'll be discovered eventually. People try to cover up ugly truths.

[Straybow]

I remember a history teacher that got reprimanded for teaching kids that Christopher Columbus died of syphilis (which many now believe he did) instead of "natural causes" as it stated in the out dated US propaganda history book.

Which could well explain his insistance that he discovered East Indies islands.

[Zeiter]

I doubt that Chomsky would be too difficult for high-schoolers to understand. Heck, I'm one myself! In fact, one of the things that I like about his style of writing is that it is relatively casual and very to-the-point, like an intelligent conversation.

But yeah, Chomsky literature will never find its way into public school curriculum, at least not as far as I can see.

[Nabvrimn]

Ah yes, our fair universities where curricula are often set by ex hippies who were educated by soviet sympathisers.

Not all lies are US government propaganda. Consider for a moment that maybe you're trusting the wrong people. I'll put my trust in people who have at least come into contact with reality, not people who have to pull an untestable theory of history or literature out of their hat and turn it into a doctoral dissertation so they can stay in the womb of acedemia.

[binTravkin]

Ah yes, our fair universities where curricula are often set by ex hippies who were educated by soviet sympathisers.

Not all lies are US government propaganda. Consider for a moment that maybe you're trusting the wrong people. I'll put my trust in people who have at least come into contact with reality, not people who have to pull an untestable theory of history or literature out of their hat and turn it into a doctoral dissertation so they can stay in the womb of acedemia.

Dear Nabvrimn it is well known that many of people governing any country nowadays have got their high posts only to their extreme ability to make people believe in their lies and extreme ability to lick someone's (who's more powerful) ass, therefore I tend to believe in those who are opressed for they at least have the right to be heard, but the governments prohibits it.

If we lived in a world where governments don't lie, they'd simply have nothing to hide from us!

Don't you understand such a simple truth?!?

And speaking about reality - your very dear president Bush has never ever seen military action - he only served in some airbase at the US territory (see his biographical data)!
And he pretends to know how to wage a war..

Read this:

Bush served stateside in the Texas Air National Guard and Cheney avoided military service through a series of school and family deferments during the 1960s.

an excerpt from:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5810451/

And THESE are your leaders now..
Cowards not warriors, they've got no grip on reality!

And hearing that Bush's IQ is 87, I fail to understand how such a wise(?) nation as americans have elected such an idiot to govern them..

It's obvious that he's only another ass-licking dog of some wealthy and powerful people who are the real rulers of US - perticulary those which have made their business from selling weapons..

[piratebrun]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Part of it is HollyWood and it lives on propaganding U.S. ideas - and people all around the world foolishly buy all that propaganda as films about war, about space (where mighty U.S. saves all the world e.g. "Liberation Day") and even some other who advertise the "amercan way of living"

I'm not getting into the main argument, but ever see a Godzilla (or Gojira) movie? Why does Godzilla always attack JAPAN and only the JAPANESE can save the world? lol it's the same thing ehehe

OH YEAH and on topic (was there one?) I pick Frontier-Simple-Survival-None! The simple life out in the forest! As long as I can grow my own crops (and crops ^^)

[livid imp]

Originally posted by Zeiter
I doubt that Chomsky would be too difficult for high-schoolers to understand. Heck, I'm one myself!

I don't have a very high opinion of those on the internet. It seems to me if you were that much of an intellectual, you'd have other things to do. BUT, the people on the SMAC boards specifically seem a cut above the typical internet pseudo-intellectual. And as such, I am sure you are you are not a typical high school student (especially if you read Chomsky!). The run-of-the-mill layman video gamer plays sh!t like diablo because they don't have the patients or insight for a game like SMAC. We are the truely "elite" gamers. Give yourselves a hand.

Originally posted by Zeiter In fact, one of the things that I like about his style of writing is that it is relatively casual and very to-the-point, like an intelligent conversation.

I like Chomsky too. Sometimes he goes way overboard on some things, but that happens with all zealots no matter what side they work for. I believe self improvement begins with self criticism, and therefor self criticism = patriotism. Americans that seek to quiet criticism of their country are nothing more than co-dependants which enable America to continue its destructive behavors.

[livid imp]

Originally posted by Straybow

I remember a history teacher that got reprimanded for teaching kids that Christopher Columbus died of syphilis (which many now believe he did) instead of "natural causes" as it stated in the out dated US propaganda history book.

Which could well explain his insistance that he discovered East Indies islands.

Funny thing is that many high school history books will mention that he died "semi-mad" and from natural causes. Well syphilis drives you insane in its late stages and causes damage to heart valves.

Now there are theories that the insanity may have started earlier in life and was the impetus to sail west in the first place and may have been the reason why he was such a horrible governor.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by piratebrun


I'm not getting into the main argument, but ever see a Godzilla (or Gojira) movie? Why does Godzilla always attack JAPAN and only the JAPANESE can save the world? lol it's the same thing ehehe

OH YEAH and on topic (was there one?) I pick Frontier-Simple-Survival-None! The simple life out in the forest! As long as I can grow my own crops (and crops ^^)

Godzilla sometimes saves Japan from some other Giant monster. But not before the Japanese show off some kind of super death ray, space craft, and other such items.

[livid imp]

Originally posted by binTravkin
I tend to believe in those who are opressed for they at least have the right to be heard, but the governments prohibits it.

If we lived in a world where governments don't lie, they'd simply have nothing to hide from us!

Talk about trying to hide the truth,
Bush has been having peaceful protesters arrested simply for being protesters.

[-SafaN-]

about "school stuff"
is it true that in most schools in america genesis is a class subject while darwin is banned?

that is what we europeans believe, and one of the things we have against america.

can't believe it personnally so ...

[Chaos Theory]

In my experience, creationism is not discussed as a viable option in public schools, though evolution is not discussed thoroughly in basic biology classes. Upper-level biology classes go into greater detail.

[piratebrun]

there are a few bible-thumpers who would like that, but it ain't so... even at most religious schools, evolution is taught, creationism might be mentioned, but the jesuits who taught me thought it was a joke

[mmontgomery]

Originally posted by -SafaN-
about "school stuff"
is it true that in most schools in america genesis is a class subject while darwin is banned?

that is what we europeans believe, and one of the things we have against america.

can't believe it personnally so ...

Actually, quite the opposite. The bible is largely banned from schools, including genesis. A gross misreading of the 1st amendment is responsible for this.

Meanwhile, Darwin is taught uncritically, as though it were a proven fact, instead of a theory with rather shaky support (from fossils and biology). I am not in favor of genesis being taught as science, but I think kids should be familiar with the account. (I mean if we learn myths about the earth being suspended on Atlas's shoulders, an educated person should know of the genesis account as well.)

An alternative theory that is gaining support is intelligent design. Some people say this is just repackaged creationism, but it is not. It is a branch of information theory, and applies to more than just origins. The main idea is the notion of specified complexity, whereby we can measure the probability of something (from an ancient artifact to an electronic signal) being from an intelligent source verses being naturally occuring. An interesting example is one professor kicks off this topic by dividing his class in half, and having half of the room flip a coin 500 times and accurately record the results (1 for heads, 0 for tails), and the other half of the room just writes down 500 numbers, trying to achieve what seems to be a random sequence. Then the professor sorts the responses into two piles, random and human generated, with 100% accuracy, based on specified complexity. This stuff is real, and it works.

Because of the growing influence of intelligent design, many Darwin apologists have written books about why features that seem to be design, in fact could have come about by random mutation and selection. Frankly, some of the explanations seem rather farfetched, and would take a lot of "faith in evolution" to believe.

My view is that we don't have nearly enough evidence to understand how life came about, but that evolution certainly has not been established as a fact. (I speak of macro evolution, or evolution of species here. Micro-evolution, or genetics, is certainly well established, but this only explains variations within a species, not how all species could evolve from a single species.) Few serious scientists still believe in Darwin's version evolution, but as scientific evidence punches holes in the theory, new theories of evolution arise to try to account for the new evidence.

I think many people actually believe in Naturalism (which is a philosophy or worldview), rather than evolution (which is science), simply because most people have not been exposed to enough scientific information regardling the pros and cons of evolution to have an informed opinion either way.