Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Favorite SMAX Faction 2004

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    I only recently installed crossfire and have not layed all the factions so I will not vote, but It seems to me that the factions are not well thought out.

    CyCon results from an appaling logic error: it is impossible for a sentient algorith to jump to humand before MMI, which is decades into the game. The existance of an accidentally created sentient algorithm is also proof that sentient algorithms do not require N-space compression, which they do in the xpack, chalking up another critical flaw in the premise of this faction.

    The Angels would not be a viable faction in RL or realistic fiction. They would collapse under their own weight like the puritans would have without native help.

    The Drones work and are one of the few logically viable human factions in crossfire, but they can't go green and I rely on that for early warfare. In my attempt at them I'm finding that I can't run free market because I'm having to keep military units where they can get at the caretakers because I know my truce won't last long. I can't run planned because the efficiency hit would kill me with B-drones.

    The pirates are playable. The efficiency hit is bad, but can be surmounted. The growth hit is minor because the sea produces so much food.

    The Cult is another impossible faction. The leader is supposed to have been found in the fungus as a child, but he is leading them at planetfall. Ooops.

    The aliens are both gravely flawed in terms of balance. At their current power levels they would have to arrive 10 to 15 turns later than they do, since they start with level 3 armor and have +25% to all combat, making them unkillable. Starting next to them seems to be a death sentence for most factions. I simply don't find the aliens fun either to play or as opponents.

    Comment


    • #47
      Yah, CyCon I can agree with regarding the algorithm thingie. One should assume that at the very least Neural Grafting is an option in the early game (as a 'primitive' substitute).
      Your remarks regarding the Angels are not clear to me, however. I don't see a reason why they're not viable.
      Drones are very versatile even without having the green option (which would be quite controversial with the +2 Industry though). Run Demo/Planned, and your inefficiency problems are solved. B-drones can be solved by constructing HolTheatres or NetNodes and the Virtual World Project. So I don't see your problem there.
      Regarding the Pirates, I'm currently involved in a PBEM in which I play with a custom seafaction which has -2 Growth, and I'm still (but barely) unsurpassed in that one. Don't tell me about growth at sea indeed!!
      And the Cult. Actually the Cult does not make Planetfall, like the Progenitors they start a few years later ingame. Check it out.
      He who knows others is wise.
      He who knows himself is enlightened.
      -- Lao Tsu

      SMAC(X) Marsscenario

      Comment


      • #48
        Drones with Planned alone are fine - as far as bureaucracy is concernced, every faction has immunity to efficiency.

        Originally, the Drones' aversion was Thought Control, not Green.

        GeoModder: What do you get for your -2 Growth in that PBEM? I hope it's more useful than Sven's bonuses. Keep in mind that anyone can take to the sea for its nutrients.
        "Cutlery confused Stalin"
        -BBC news

        Comment


        • #49
          Instead, I've got 0 effic, +2 Police (thinking of lowering it to +1) and +1 Probe. Also, bases need a Hab Complex to exceed size 4, and an aversion of Free Market is inherit as well.
          O yes, the faction receives the Deep Pressure Hull ability upon the appropriate tech. And on top of that the faction bases are more or less 'hidden' untill the population size gets too big (they're meant as an undersea faction).

          And everyone may go to see as much as he/she likes, but if most of the good spots are already occupied it won't do them much good.
          He who knows others is wise.
          He who knows himself is enlightened.
          -- Lao Tsu

          SMAC(X) Marsscenario

          Comment


          • #50
            They can run green, they just have to have democracy, a children's creche, or Eudaimonia to make up for it.
            Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers; arise ye prisoners of want
            The reason for revolt now thunders; and at last ends the age of "can't"
            Away with all your superstitions -servile masses, arise, arise!
            We'll change forthwith the old conditions And spurn the dust to win the prize

            Comment


            • #51
              +2 Police is very nice, since with the Ascetic Virtues it's the magical +3. Garrisons are also important in cities to help with random IoD attacks. Might as well make them control drones, too.

              +1 Probe is a bonus, if not terribly useful.

              -3 hab limits is a nasty penalty by the time you get to size 11. On the other hand, it'll take you longer without proper pop booming.

              Aversion Free Market hurts, but not that much, since sea tiles produce fantastic amounts of energy anyway, once restrictions are lifted. You can run Planned anyway, for a while.

              Deep Pressure Hull for free won't do much in most games, as that comes so late.

              Hidden bases are interesting, but does that really work? I'd think the name and size would be visible regardless of the base graphics.

              IMO, the good spots are ones that are nearby. All sea shelf can make plenty of nutrients and energy. You aren't going to spread so much as to choke off the seas, on a reasonable map.

              Originally posted by GeoModder
              Instead, I've got 0 effic, +2 Police (thinking of lowering it to +1) and +1 Probe. Also, bases need a Hab Complex to exceed size 4, and an aversion of Free Market is inherit as well.
              O yes, the faction receives the Deep Pressure Hull ability upon the appropriate tech. And on top of that the faction bases are more or less 'hidden' untill the population size gets too big (they're meant as an undersea faction).

              And everyone may go to see as much as he/she likes, but if most of the good spots are already occupied it won't do them much good.
              "Cutlery confused Stalin"
              -BBC news

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Chaos Theory
                +2 Police is very nice, since with the Ascetic Virtues it's the magical +3. Garrisons are also important in cities to help with random IoD attacks. Might as well make them control drones, too.
                +1 Probe is a bonus, if not terribly useful.
                -3 hab limits is a nasty penalty by the time you get to size 11. On the other hand, it'll take you longer without proper pop booming.
                Aversion Free Market hurts, but not that much, since sea tiles produce fantastic amounts of energy anyway, once restrictions are lifted. You can run Planned anyway, for a while.
                Deep Pressure Hull for free won't do much in most games, as that comes so late.
                Hidden bases are interesting, but does that really work? I'd think the name and size would be visible regardless of the base graphics.
                IMO, the good spots are ones that are nearby. All sea shelf can make plenty of nutrients and energy. You aren't going to spread so much as to choke off the seas, on a reasonable map.
                -3 Hab limits is mostly offset IF the player can get a hold on Ascetic Virtues. You already see part of the tech strategy for this faction.
                And just wait untill the +1 probe foils come invading a landlubber base with their 'normal' probe ratings, even if defended. It's the start of having a +3 probe with Covert Ops, thus the rollover bug won't happen as well.
                The free ability, well, the faction was more or less meant for a alphax.txt file in which this ability resides under Silksteel alloys. Much sooner thus.
                For the 'choking', it's better done when at least two seafactions exists in a game (the other one off course the Pirates).
                And for the 'hidden bases'. Watch the screenie. The -3 hab limit is a bit calculated as well to provide (more or less) invisible bases when they're smaller, the faction color blends in perfectly within shelf squares as well. And if the other players can be persuaded to put off the base grid (the red lines) some of them are bound to stumble over your bases without knowing...
                Last edited by GeoModder; February 13, 2010, 15:57.
                He who knows others is wise.
                He who knows himself is enlightened.
                -- Lao Tsu

                SMAC(X) Marsscenario

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by BlackCat
                  Haven't tried Drones seriously, but since they tend to be easy enemies i doubt them.
                  Morgan is probably the easiest enemy of the original factions when played by the AI....but put Morgan in a skilled player's hand and you have a juggernaut disproportionably powerful to all but a few other factions in the game. Think Morgan is a push-over? Do some searches for old Morgan posts, there is plenty to change your mind. Same goes for Drones. I dare say that the Drones are the single most powerful faction, with the very arguable exception of the Morgans or the University....actually the Hive is way up there too, but that is neither here nor there. I used to be a big Aki fan too, running 100% labs with a 20% bonus is very attractive. But a +2 to industry plus one less drone in transcend is a bigger winner in my book.
                  "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
                  "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
                  "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
                  "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I still don't get it though; to me, the Free Drone's hated social engineering choice should be free market, not green economics.

                    And yes, Morgan is a juggernaut in the right hands. With cloning vats, ascetic virtues, and various other things...its actually quite practical to do democracy+green+wealth, and watch your energy skyrocket....

                    However, Svens or Roze would have to take my vote. With Nethack terminus, oh my, what a lot of damage one can do! Svens is pretty flexible, as well, except on 30-50% land maps, of course.
                    Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers; arise ye prisoners of want
                    The reason for revolt now thunders; and at last ends the age of "can't"
                    Away with all your superstitions -servile masses, arise, arise!
                    We'll change forthwith the old conditions And spurn the dust to win the prize

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Nabvrimn
                      CyCon results from an appaling logic error: it is impossible for a sentient algorith to jump to humand before MMI, which is decades into the game.
                      If you arrive at a paradox, it is likely because you are using the wrong paradigm. You are mixing background story and game mechanics. Story wise, all the xpack factions come much later in the timeline than Planetfall, but what were the designers supposed to do, set all the xpack factions to start the game at 2250? Imagine making planetfall next to Miriam who has Chaos Needlejets to your scouts. Yes there are going to be logic gaps, but great gameplay can not afford to be trumped by storyline.

                      Originally posted by Nabvrimn
                      The Angels would not be a viable faction in RL or realistic fiction. They would collapse under their own weight like the puritans would have without native help.
                      While this is basically true, it is no more or less logical than the Univ, Morgan, and Gaian factions are. The only factions that make any modern political sense are PKs (prosperity based democracy), Hive (socialist military state), Believers (fundamentalist theocracy), and Spartans (military dictatorship). All the rest of the factions would actually just be little more than special interest groups in one of those political factions. Thank the Cosmic Muffin that we are playing a game which we can enjoy without all this minutia.

                      Originally posted by Nabvrimn
                      The Cult is another impossible faction. The leader is supposed to have been found in the fungus as a child, but he is leading them at planetfall. Ooops.
                      I believe some one may have already pointed this out but the Cult (when under AI control) doesn't appear until six years after all the other factions start. Ever notice how the Cult always ends up on crappy little islands? That is because all the other plots of land have already been used up by the time they start (this is especially true on tiny maps).

                      Originally posted by Nabvrimn
                      The aliens are both gravely flawed in terms of balance.
                      Don't mean to be rude, but ...duh... that is the whole plot point in SMAX. Two alien powers are slugging it out and you're in the middle. You have to choose a side to survive until you are strong enough to cast off your yoke.
                      "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
                      "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
                      "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
                      "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
                        I still don't get it though; to me, the Free Drone's hated social engineering choice should be free market, not green economics.
                        I believe the idea is that industry is the antitheses to environmentalism

                        Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
                        However, Svens or Roze would have to take my vote. With Nethack terminus, oh my, what a lot of damage one can do! Svens is pretty flexible, as well, except on 30-50% land maps, of course.
                        Please prove me wrong on this one, cause I wish I was, but....Gak! The Nethack Terminus is got to be one of the more worthless SPs in the game. First off the game likely was decided long ago making it moot. Secondly, it is only really only useful against a +3 probe/HSA enemies. Blah! terrible SP. The Drones +2 industry pays for the Algorithmic Enhancement added to any Drone probe team.
                        "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
                        "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
                        "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
                        "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          The Nethack Terminus would be nice if it didn't come so late there's nothing to probe anymore (except maybe to sabotage the AtT ).
                          "Cutlery confused Stalin"
                          -BBC news

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            The Angels would not be a viable faction in RL or realistic fiction. They would collapse under their own weight like the puritans would have without native help.
                            Think the GNU/Linux and their respective hacker community hundreds of years into the future.

                            Certainly sustainable.
                            Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers; arise ye prisoners of want
                            The reason for revolt now thunders; and at last ends the age of "can't"
                            Away with all your superstitions -servile masses, arise, arise!
                            We'll change forthwith the old conditions And spurn the dust to win the prize

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              What about mind controlling bases for (almost?) free? :

                              Please prove me wrong on this one, cause I wish I was, but....Gak! The Nethack Terminus is got to be one of the more worthless SPs in the game. First off the game likely was decided long ago making it moot.


                              Not necessarily. Right now I'm playing Roze, and me and Deidre are neck to neck at...*gasp* MY. 2459. Transcend level. I have Nethack, of course.

                              And Deidre is ahead in Ascent to Transcendence by four mineral round turns.

                              Secondly, it is only really only useful against a +3 probe/HSA enemies.


                              EC cost for actions?
                              Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers; arise ye prisoners of want
                              The reason for revolt now thunders; and at last ends the age of "can't"
                              Away with all your superstitions -servile masses, arise, arise!
                              We'll change forthwith the old conditions And spurn the dust to win the prize

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Since we are having so much fun at the storyline's expense, not the refrences a very hostile atmosphere "...while a gasping death for most humans..." and yet Chow Down is found in the fungus.
                                #play s.-cd#g+c-ga#+dgfg#+cf----q.c
                                #endgame

                                Quantum P. is a champion: http://geocities.com/zztexpert/docs/upoprgv4.html

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X