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**DrSpike** · October 30, 2006, 14:52

Nice post. Perhaps more issues for the admins to take on board as part of the general tidying that others have suggested.

**Nikolai** · October 30, 2006, 15:24

Now that was harsh. But I think it's a good idea for the admins to look at this. Thanks for bringing this up, if the site gets better, we all profit.

**Locutus** · October 30, 2006, 20:27

Re: What about some site integration?

As someone who helped create much of the content discussed, I think it's fair to say 'we are aware of these issues'. Unfortunately we all have jobs, lives, families, etc which are increasingly taking up more of our time, so fixing these and other problems is not as easily done as said (and that's the understatement of the year).

A few things I want to pick out to reply to specifically (that's not to say I don't have an opinion about the rest or don't intend to do anything with it but I decline to comment on it at this time).

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Why does this category not include a transcript of said videos?

You're talking about several hours of material, and what's been posted so far is just a fraction of what's been taped. Ever made a video transcript? I have, repeatedly (both for Apolyton and elsewhere, even had a job as a transcriber once (briefly)). It's an absolute nightmare! It's tedious, mind-numbing, extremely time consuming work and very ungrateful as people will take transcripts for granted once they are posted, if they even notice/use them at all (the exception are deaf people, who know by sheer necessity how rare it is to get that kind of thing -- they are the only group of people that could ever motivate me to do this type of work again). And that's just for short videos, I wouldn't want to transcribe all of ApolyCon's material if I was paid good money for it...

If you're willing to volunteer to do this yourself then great, I'll support you in any way that I can (although I'm afraid I may just have scared off any prospective volunteers

) but you can hardly go demanding this kind of service because you feel you're entitled to it... (Yes, I know that's not how you intended it, but you get my point.)

And that is without even addressing the "Civ IV fell bellow leading 30 best selling games", "Civ IV is again back to No. 29 of best selling games" items posted each week. Who cares?

I do. And I know I'm not the only one (and if you care about what kind of budget is available for future games/expansion packs, you should probably start caring too...) We know not all news may interest everyone, but that's why we try to cover everything. If you feel there's news we're not covering that we should be let me know and I'll try to include more of it, but I think generally we do a pretty adequate job. If there are multiple news items on unit sales on the front page that's simply because there *is* no other news. I'm sorry about that but we don't make the news, we just report it...

**Solver** · October 30, 2006, 21:25

I believe Siro might have been referring to the Civ3 Apolyton University. Not that it's alive anymore, and Civ3 itself is hardly alive, but the material produced by the Civ3 AU indeed is quite possibly the best strategy information in existence for Civ3.

**Sirotnikov** · October 31, 2006, 15:48

Hey, I totally respect you guys and "we have lives" is a perfectly valid reason. Don't get me wrong, here, I'm not blaming anyone that he doesn't put enough time.

On the contrary - I think lots of effort is being put in constantly.

I'm (somewhat awkwardly) suggesting ideas which should IMO mainstream the site structure - and increase the availability of Apolyton's content.

Apolyton consists of a "site" and "Forum". The "site" part, IMO is now somewhat behind in terms of ease of use, and content breadth, and the whole reason I put this post up is because I want it to be better.

I wrote emotionally, but I really didn't mean "to b*tch".

I just wanted to make sure that my ideas are heard. I might have done a better job waiting to 'cool off' and making a "suggestions for change" list.

**Locutus** · October 31, 2006, 15:59

That is understood and you do have some good points, if not any that we weren't already aware of. But feel free to (continue to) express your opinion on these issues, we read it intently and will take it all into account when we do get around to making improvements...

**Sirotnikov** · October 31, 2006, 18:07

You're talking about several hours of material, and what's been posted so far is just a fraction of what's been taped. Ever made a video transcript? I have, repeatedly (both for Apolyton and elsewhere, even had a job as a transcriber once (briefly)). It's an absolute nightmare!

[sic]

If you're willing to volunteer to do this yourself then great, I'll support you in any way that I can (although I'm afraid I may just have scared off any prospective volunteers ) but you can hardly go demanding this kind of service because you feel you're entitled to it... (Yes, I know that's not how you intended it, but you get my point.)

I never meant to say "I'm entitled to this or that".

I'm not entitled to anything from any gaming site, since I'm not paying you squat, and you owe me nothing.

I do however think, that as a potential site visitor - I would expect to find the same information enclosed in the video, somewhere else as well. It isn't some sort of public duty. It is a competitive advantage that Apolyton could have. It is something that site visitors have learnt to expect.

And frankly, I will consider making some sort of transcripts. I don't have a huge record with those, but I did a small share of (non-professional) translation which is just like transcribing and then some.

I did actually, in my own spare time, took some of the ApolyCon movies, and audio-improved the sound quality, removing large amounts of backgorund noise. Had I better equipment and experience, I would have no doubt played with video quality.

I'd be more than happy to share my improved audio versions.

I would also think of learning to operate a sub-title program, and adding subtitles (which could be cut into transcripts).

I don't have loads of time, but there are things which I'm doing for myself which I could share.

**Sirotnikov** · October 31, 2006, 18:21

I do. And I know I'm not the only one (and if you care about what kind of budget is available for future games/expansion packs, you should probably start caring too...) We know not all news may interest everyone, but that's why we try to cover everything. If you feel there's news we're not covering that we should be let me know and I'll try to include more of it, but I think generally we do a pretty adequate job. If there are multiple news items on unit sales on the front page that's simply because there *is* no other news. I'm sorry about that but we don't make the news, we just report it...

Come on.

I admit these are not zero-value news.
But should it really take the bulk of space that it does? Especially when Apolyton forums have so much other content lying around for free?

The original reason that I came to Apolyton and sticked around, wasn't because it had great news about Civ II sales. It was because it had great scenarios and mods!

If you compare the front page of Apolyton / Civilization4.net with that of CFC, where would you find more one-click downloadable content on the front page?

I'm not trying to insult anyone or say "you suck". I'm trying to point out things that "we" could do better. And yes - I feel part of the team.

If you say "Hey Siro, put your money where your mouth is" I'm willing to try and help where I can. First and foremost I want to "float" my ideas out for everyone to see and discuss.

I believe Siro might have been referring to the Civ3 Apolyton University. Not that it's alive anymore, and Civ3 itself is hardly alive, but the material produced by the Civ3 AU indeed is quite possibly the best strategy information in existence for Civ3.

CFC has a link on its front page to the "War Academy".
Which is a nice concept... copying Apolyton's own "University".

What's the difference though?

That our best guides are accessible from here http://apolyton.net/forums/forumdisp...s=&forumid=263 and here http://apolyton.net/forums/forumdisp...s=&forumid=265

But CFC has them on the front page.

And they feature the same guides that are featured on their forum pages, but edited and doctored to look like a proper article / guide.

And ours are harder to seek out, for a new comer. Especially one that has little experience with forums.

**Heresson** · October 31, 2006, 19:17

Plz summarise

**Solver** · October 31, 2006, 19:27

Siro, as Locutus has mentioned, we as in the staff, are well-aware of those issues. I can also say that we're, uh, particularly aware of the issue of some key things not being accessible through the civ4.net first page, such as mod downloads, which are indeed rather hard to get to from outside the forums.

As for the transcripts, I'm not quite sure that the average visitor would expect to even have them, but of course those would be good. Still, I can confirm Locutus's comment that it is indeed a very time-consuming and very boring job. If you provide transcripts yourself (or anything else of use, for that matter), I'm sure it will be used and proper credit given. And I also personally believe that, when talking about what the staff does, these transcripts shouldn't be a top priority job. Merely because there are more important issues - such as that very same issue of poor accessibility of Civ4 downloads.

**Sirotnikov** · November 1, 2006, 11:19

I never said those are top-priorities.

However if we set forth a goal which is "Make unique Apolyton content the center piece" of its web page, then providing those transcripts would be a good way do provide extra accessibility.

**Sirotnikov** · November 1, 2006, 11:24

And I am happy that the staff is aware of those issues.

That was my concern.

**Heresson** · November 1, 2006, 15:54

Double post! Ban him!

**Sirotnikov** · July 15, 2007, 09:54

bump

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