Missing old friends & Reminiscences

[Rasbelin]

Oh, somebody with fat fingers erased my original lurker post. Well, I still seem to have my account and I'm not banned (Houston, are you receiving?), so it seems I'm still alive here. Now, I probably of course get that lifetime ban.

So let's try to rewrite and expand on what I did first post.

I haven't been around here for ages and it's a coincidence I happen to return today, but sure, I do remember a lot. E.g. I and several others were the unofficial chatroom features of ACS. And I don't remember just Poly, but also alternative ventures like Eventis and CGN (darn, I wonder how Buster is doing these days - at least the business is still up). And of course I remember being part of the Stella Polaris space TBS game dev project and running CivIRC with Kassiopeia and Buster.

I never made it to the first Poly meet-up (I think it was named as a convention?) in the US, but we did have several local Finnish meet-ups and we had Drogue visit us. There was plenty of Apolytoners I would've been delighted to meet, like e.g. IW (anyone else that remembers his Erm comics?) and Frozzy, but that never happen. My most recent Apolyton related encounter would've been, when several years ago (maybe like 2014-2016?) I planned to meet the CSM (i.e. Solver), but he had moved country, so we didn't end up meeting back then, when I was in Riga.

It was sad to discover today that Rah has passed away quite recently. My condolences to the last Ferret standing. I also noticed that Pekka, a frequent OTF poster back in the day, has died due to a brain tumor. He was one of those several Finnish Apolytoners that didn't partake in the Suomithreadi gang (either the thread or on IRC), so I never met him. I know he was active in the OTF more broadly.

Speaking of those who have passed away, I did personally have a cancer fight back in 2014. I did back then think with self-irony that maybe I forgot to build the WOW Cure for Cancer enough many times in my games. Well, I've since kept building it more frequently as a rule and it's my personal favourite WOW nowadays. Not exactly a great WOW as per say, but I like/appreciate the subject outside the virtual realms of gaming. Remember: it's #f**kcancer as a cancer survivor.

I haven't maintained active contact with any Apolytoners (or other associated online communities in the same sphere of TBS/RTS playing geeks) back from the day, so I don't really know what my old comrades (speaking of comrades: it would be great to hear from Tassadar) are up to in these 2020s. I personally still play Civ II, but it's just several times per year now, since it involves digging up my XP gaming rig. I haven't hooked up with the others from the Suomithreadi gang anymore, so I don't know how they're doing. Basically the subgroup dissolved as Poly changed as a community with Wouter & co. and our personal lives evolved.

One thing I'm not sure, if I ever back then mentioned, is that I was the one who resurected ottok (you remember the dyslectic Finnish Civ II map creator?) and he went ape shyte on Poly for an hour or so, until he ended up as banned for posting irrelevant garbage all over the place. What happen is that I tracked him down with his name and sent him an e-mail. And lo and behold - he replied to me and emerged on Poly like Jebus from his grave. After being banned, he sent me an e-mail and he never returned.

If anything, I wonder what our hairy Greek and Dan are up to these days? Is Dan still a teacher in Ontario?

Once the pandemic is over and in case anyone wants a rendezvous for old times sake, I can consider any suggestions for a meet-up.

What I understand is, he had some people over, there was drinking, it was a paahhtay. Some guest -eight or nine, I think- discovered Ming's computer logged on to Poly - and posted filth as him.

Markos banned Ming for a couple weeks, or something like that...

Yes, your summary of that case is pretty accurate AFAIK. I have a hunch which all were present, but it's really not that relevant. E.g. both Ferrets were actually posting as Ming. It wasn't like the end of the world, but sure, Ming's banning rod went wild for several hours. Now I smirk at it, but back then it felt bewildering.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Markos is on Facebook - doesn't seem to have much to say, but 'liked' when I posted the other day that the red logo was back. Buster (no relation) I got an email answered when he took CGN down - I was offering to host a mirror of CGN, but didn't know the answer to what files I'd need - radio silence since, despite several attempts to reach out. Dan once answered a query if Polycast was his day job now with a nod smilie, but that was a long time ago and he seems to not be involved much anymore. -No word on if the towels have gotten too expensive or what.

-Speaking of Finns, Nikolai claims to no longer be 16, and is allegedly married to an actual woman. I've got a pic somewhere.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

AH.

HastyWedding.jpg
-I believe that's Astrid on the left.



I did him a SMACX custom faction as a wedding present - the Believers w/ Miriam changed to him.

believe2.jpg

[Rasbelin]

AH.

My first thought was: Alexdander's Horse.

Buster (no relation) I got an email answered when he took CGN down - I was offering to host a mirror of CGN, but didn't know the answer to what files I'd need - radio silence since, despite several attempts to reach out.

Buster back then didn't necessarily reply quickly. He could be somewhat preoccupied and he then forgot about the issue you asked about.

-Speaking of Finns, Nikolai claims to no longer be 16, and is allegedly married to an actual woman. I've got a pic somewhere.

Except Nikolai was Norwegian. Well, probably close enough.

I suspect many of us Civ geeks are less geek now. Yes, including myself. But yes, Nikolai sure felt young back then.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

(Oh, I'm Buster's Uncle - riffing on a Ming thing, mostly.)



He's a Finn. A FINN, I TELL YOU!

-You can tell by the pointy hat.


Allegedly, Astrid reports his face was delicious.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

For them as ain't following my Smilies & Forum Graphics thread -most everyone, it seems- here:

OldPoly4.png

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

...MarkG told me I had the order wrong.

OldPoly5.png
He would...

[N35t0r]

(Some stuff)

Hello Rasmellon

Eventis is still online, at least as long as UH remembers to pay for hosting. Nothing much going on though, I'm not sure if anyone still has contact with Tassi though. You could ask.

[Rasbelin]

Hello Rasmellon

At least you didn't call me Assbey, like some irritated newbie did on Poly back in the day.

Eventis is still online, at least as long as UH remembers to pay for hosting. Nothing much going on though, I'm not sure if anyone still has contact with Tassi though. You could ask.

Seems so. I had to do some tinkering to get my account working again. Haven't heard from Joncha, UH and the others as well for ages. Apparently I haven't been there since 2012.

[Solver]

Rasbelin! So good to see you, a visitor from the golden age of Apolyton! Mentions of Eventis and Stella Polaris are quite the blast from the past. I had forgotten about Eventis...

I'm happy for Markos that he actually made a successful business out of Apolyton, sort of. He runs a company that does Web software, and the company is quite successful. The software is in essence a continuation of the software he'd been making for internal use here at Apolyton. It was really, really bad in the beginning and IMO contributed to the downfall of the site, but these days Markos is successful with his company! Wish he'd actually drop by at some point, I don't think he posted even once since quitting.

As for myself, I was disappointed and burned out by Civ5, so had a longer absence from the community there. Between 2011 and 2014 I was very rarely on any civ site. Then I again participated for Civ6, mostly in a private group that traces its origins to Apolyton. So I've remained in good contact with some old-timers. These days I'm with Dale, working on Old World, Soren's new game.

Now, as to writing that 300-page history of Apolyton's golden age and its downfall...

[Rasbelin]

The CSM sighted. Good times.

Rasbelin! So good to see you, a visitor from the golden age of Apolyton! Mentions of Eventis and Stella Polaris are quite the blast from the past. I had forgotten about Eventis...

Not to mention Candelabra or the CtP2 community project. Those were exciting times, even though I didn't participate in those.

But an era of online boards somewhat came to an end with (anti)social media emerging. I also suspect Reddit has been a contributor to the demise, since it allows using a nickname and it's easy to create own subs. I suspect Facebook was the mainstream contributor to online boards becoming less popular, since people were anyway already there. And now Discord seems to be the latest reason. Both XenForo and vBulletin have been doing less well now.

I'm happy for Markos that he actually made a successful business out of Apolyton, sort of. He runs a company that does Web software, and the company is quite successful.

So, now we don't have our own hairy Greek, but our own hairy Aristotle Onassis. Sans Jacky, of course.

As for myself, I was disappointed and burned out by Civ5, so had a longer absence from the community there. Between 2011 and 2014 I was very rarely on any civ site. Then I again participated for Civ6, mostly in a private group that traces its origins to Apolyton. So I've remained in good contact with some old-timers. These days I'm with Dale, working on Old World, Soren's new game.

Good to hear you're still into something you hopefully enjoy. I myself have skipped all the newer Civ games since Civ III. Truth to be told, I play much less than back then and I'm more preoccupied with other things (like, erm, making money or something like that). It's not like somebody would pay me to play Civ II on Twitch. I doubt TBS games would do well in this day and age. Too slow of a tempo.

Now, as to writing that 300-page history of Apolyton's golden age and its downfall...

I shall wait for that then. And yes, I'll have to pop into that other site as well.

[Solver]

But an era of online boards somewhat came to an end with (anti)social media emerging. I also suspect Reddit has been a contributor to the demise, since it allows using a nickname and it's easy to create own subs. I suspect Facebook was the mainstream contributor to online boards becoming less popular, since people were anyway already there. And now Discord seems to be the latest reason. Both XenForo and vBulletin have been doing less well now.

Reddit contributed, but I think it was mainly the shift to Facebook, which happened together with greater commercialization of stuff. Companies want to control content, so they tried to move activity towards curated, moderated Facebook groups and such that the companies control. Forums are for specialized interests, or for those who go very deep into a particular subject. I find it sad - I think forums were great, combining many advantages of BBSes and Usenet, while the current mainstream services on the Net are nowhere near as good.

Good to hear you're still into something you hopefully enjoy. I myself have skipped all the newer Civ games since Civ III. Truth to be told, I play much less than back then and I'm more preoccupied with other things (like, erm, making money or something like that). It's not like somebody would pay me to play Civ II on Twitch. I doubt TBS games would do well in this day and age. Too slow of a tempo.

Of course I also play less than before - other responsibilities - but don't underestimate TBS games. They have a bigger audience than ever before, even if it's a smaller slice of the total pie. Gaming is a mainstream hobby now, and a huge industry. Civ6 took less than a month to sell a million copies, Civ1 took ten years to reach that. TBS games are a small niche market compared to the more popular genres, but in absolute terms, the number of people playing and enjoying such games is much larger than ever before!

[Rasbelin]

Reddit contributed, but I think it was mainly the shift to Facebook, which happened together with greater commercialization of stuff. Companies want to control content, so they tried to move activity towards curated, moderated Facebook groups and such that the companies control. Forums are for specialized interests, or for those who go very deep into a particular subject. I find it sad - I think forums were great, combining many advantages of BBSes and Usenet, while the current mainstream services on the Net are nowhere near as good.

One word: walled gardens. It's true that large corporations have wanted to gain control of contents. That's something we didn't have back when ACS, CFC, CGN and other online communities were popular. Walled gardens weren't a thing during the IT bubble and the years after it. It's been a late 2010s phenomenon. It's quite doable to swap between SMF, vB, IPB, XF etc. But you can't move smoothly from Facebook to Discord or take the Facebook group over to your own Diaspora platform (free software social network platform). You're stuck inside.

Facebook groups really don't work well for contextual discussion that's organised into subforums and threads. Discussions, information and media become obsolete much quicker now. The same applies to other platforms, such as Twitter. Also YouTube seems be current only for an hour or up to a day. I personally like how online forums work - a discussion can keep going for days, weeks and even years. It doesn't get lost, when it's threaded. It's convenient to locate what you're interested in. Over time it builds up a treasure chest of content. There's also a tendency to write coherent, longer posts, since they don't become obsolete as quick (at least that's how I perceive it). Facebook doesn't do justice to someone like me, who likes to write long posts, do quotes etc., since the discussion model is so simplistic.

So yes, I personally dislike Facebook. I'm only doing Facebook for communicating with certain peer groups. And I don't even have to say about e.g. Cambridge Analytica. There's no free lunch. You are the product there. Or more precise: your data. On an independent forum or other platform, the control is retained much closer to home. Online forums are still much more enjoyable than antisocial media (my name for social media - people just sit and stare at their idiotphones, being oblivious to those actually present). And I still use IRC.

Out of the newer mediums, I dropped WhatsApp around New Year, since I grew tired of not having control of how much noise I get in my phone. At some point my phone received drunk memes in the middle of the night in groups that were supposed to be for important messages. Like, err, I want to wake up to see crap? That's something you used to have the Poly OTF for.

My five cents: I personally still find online forums to be a great medium. I haven't been active on these gaming forums lately (read: 10+ years), but I'm active on two travel forums. My last online community meet-up before the pandemic, in Oct 2019, was related to one of them. So I'm still an active forum user, but the topic has been different. Not sure why I didn't return earlier during the pandemic to my old homestead here. Maybe I assumed it's so dead here? But sure, there's been ample time lately to hang around online.

Of course I also play less than before - other responsibilities - but don't underestimate TBS games. They have a bigger audience than ever before, even if it's a smaller slice of the total pie. Gaming is a mainstream hobby now, and a huge industry. Civ6 took less than a month to sell a million copies, Civ1 took ten years to reach that. TBS games are a small niche market compared to the more popular genres, but in absolute terms, the number of people playing and enjoying such games is much larger than ever before!

Indeed, you're right in terms of how gaming has become more mainstream. Back in the day e.g. you used to play FPS games in clans and it was just gaming. Now gaming is all of a suddenly e-sports and compared to javelin throwing, marathons etc. It's a pretty wierd logic to me, but it goes to show that gaming is now less of a geek thing. Overall I've followed the growing gaming market lately from an investing perspective. I've indeed paid attention to Unreal and Unity making game development more accessible and most likely the number of titles will grow more exponential. And of course mobile gaming is something we didn't do back in the day.

Gee, so much has changed since e.g. 2000-2005. IMO the bleeding edge in game development (not talking graphics, but gameplay) right now is Cyberpunk 2077. I haven't played it, but all presentations have been really impressive and the gameplay seems to be quite massive in terms of depth and different playable paths. It's like e.g. Larry^100 compared to 30 years ago.

[Rasbelin]

From my old ACS archive, one of the Poly merchandise designs I made in 2002:

kittens.jpg

[N35t0r]

My phone is in constant do not disturb mode. Only calls from my wife and my mother ring.