NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - Off Season

[Imran Siddiqui]

And wikipedia, btw, disagrees with you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Leonard

As an NFL prospect, Leonard was targeted by almost every draft expert and website to be the top fullback (as well as one of the higher-ranked halfbacks) and most likely will be playing a hybrid halfback / fullback / H-Back position in the pros.

Coach Scott Linehan decided to use Leonard as a fullback, running back, and a special third-down back, in relief of Steven Jackson.

[Al B. Sure!]

And wikipedia, btw, disagrees with you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Leonard

What are you trying to say? It says right there... running back... he was in training camp as the only other runningback besides Brad Lau so he was getting all the snaps in single back formations and what not. When Steven Jackson went down, Brian Leonard started at tailback... Brian Leonard was the team's #2 rusher in 2007.

He was then converted back into a fullback after that season.

WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE?

You just want to rub in the Rutgers. Only explanation I have. You're not even arguing against anything I've said.

[Al B. Sure!]

And notice what your quote says:

As an NFL prospect, Leonard was targeted by almost every draft expert and website to be the top fullback (as well as one of the higher-ranked halfbacks) and most likely will be playing a hybrid halfback / fullback / H-Back position in the pros.

But what are you trying to say? Are you denying that Leonard was ever a white halfback in the NFL? Or that he was his team's starting/leading rusher for several weeks in the absence of Steven Jackson?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Read it again:

hybrid halfback / fullback / H-Back position

See the fullback in there? H-back? Hybrid? He was a flex back. He played fullback as well as RB with the Rams. To say Leonard is an example of a RB that was converted to FB is just being lazy or dumb.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But what are you trying to say? Are you denying that Leonard was ever a white halfback in the NFL? Or that he was his team's starting/leading rusher for several weeks in the absence of Steven Jackson?

The idea that he was ever "converted" to FB is incredibly wrong. He was always a hybrid player, who'd play HB as well as FB and H-Back.

[Al B. Sure!]

Read it again:

hybrid halfback / fullback / H-Back position

See the fullback in there? H-back? Hybrid halfback? He was a flex back. He played fullback as well as RB with the Rams. To say Leonard is an example of a RB that was converted to FB is just being lazy or dumb.

Why are you so technical? What's the difference between a fullback and a halfback?

If a team comes out in an I formation, the fullback is the guy between the QB and HB (notice how the roles got reversed over time; fullbacks, by definition should be behind halfbacks). This player in this position usually blocks but sometimes gets carries. Teams also use 2-RB sets even in an I formation which further complicates matters.

In every other 2-back formation, pro, split, etc. the distinction is even less clear. The only thing I suppose one could be certain with is that in a single-back formation, the runningback in the backfield would be the halfback but even this isn't clear-cut either as fullbacks have been used in single back formations (ie- Le'ron McClain).

So how can we distinguish between a fullback and a halfback? They're all ultimately runningbacks and seem to have much interchangeability. Well, generally, we look at what the roles are. Fullbacks typically block (but again, this line is fuzzy with guys like McClain who is nominally a fullback being his team's leading rusher, as in 2008 when he had over 200 yards on McGahee and over 400 yards on rookie Ray Rice.).

So the fullback is primarily the blocker while the halfback gets the carries.

But what did Brian Leonard do? He got the carries for the Rams in 2007. He didn't run block. He came out in single-back formations. He was a clear-cut HB.

The point anyway is that the distinction between halfback and fullback is largely imaginary. It's whatever the coach wants to call it. Was Peyton Hillis a HB or a FB this week, Imran?

This is also why you typically don't see such distinction on team rosters.

What does the Bengals official depth chart say?

http://www.bengals.com/team/depth-chart.html

RB Cedric Benson, Bernard Scott, Brian Leonard, Cedric Peerman

[Al B. Sure!]

I'm going to use the Browns as an example here since they have some interesting players...

Imran, what was Peyton Hillis this week? He had over 20 carries. Was he a FB or a HB?

What about Josh Cribbs? He had 5 carries and 2 receptions on the day. Is he a HB or a WR? If he runblocked for Peyton Hillis, does that make him a FB, too?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why are you so technical? What's the difference between a fullback and a halfback?

You were the one making a big deal of white RBs being converted to FBs.

Albert you are just simply wrong. End of story.

[Al B. Sure!]

The idea behind the 'conversion' to fullback was that his role as a carrying RB was reduced and he became primarily a blocker. That's why I say he converted to fullback.

At Rutgers, Brian Leonard got carries. Hell, he was the school's 4th leading all-time rusher. Even as a nominal FB and playing second-fiddle to Ray Rice, he still got a good amount of carries, which would be HB territory by NFL standards. He wasn't a pure blocker.

The Rams turned him into a pure blocker which is why he went from 86 carries in 2007 to only 2 carries in 2008. 2 carries... that's blocking fullback numbers...

[Al B. Sure!]

You were the one making a big deal of white RBs being converted to FBs.

Albert you are just simply wrong. End of story.

Forget HB's and FB's since you want to be pedantic... The point is he was converted from a rusher to a blocker by the Rams in his 2nd year. You want to dispute that?

[Imran Siddiqui]

re: Brian Leonard. That may have something to do with the fact he only played TWO GAMES in 2008. You know, after having surgery on both shoulders after the 2007 season?

[Al B. Sure!]

Get real, Imran.

"It used to be for the athletes playing in high school, if you were African-American and playing quarterback, the assumption was they were going to put you at wide receiver," [Craig] James said. "That trend has been reversed and there's not a perception [African-Americans] can't play quarterback, but there is a perception that if you're a white guy and a running back, you need to move your position."

Craig James knows the deal.

Just read analysis and scouting reports on every white RB (RB meaning both FB and HB) or WR... you always see buzzwords...

Check this from Sports Illustrated about Toby Gerhart:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1161006/index.htm

Toby Gerhart, a deceptively fast back

deceptively fast... why deceptively? What does that mean? Because he's White he isn't supposed to be fast?


You see similar language with regards to Black QB's who are always described as "athletic" along with some comment about reading defenses which are all buzzwords that we all know what they mean.

Grow up. There are obvious issues at hand where guys are not supposed to play certain positions because of prejudices. The ESPN article I cited earlier talks about this. It's either that there are deep-rooted prejudices or Blacks are genetically superior at running. Why else have the white halfbacks disappeared?

[Al B. Sure!]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/291461-why-toby-gerharts-race-will-prevent-him-from-winning-the-heisman

This sums it all up:

Because a white running back is called a fullback

Because no one believes white people have the innate physical gifts to succeed at the running back position like black players do. White players throw, play tight end, punt, and kick; black players run, or catch and run. That is the simple, immutable order of things.

but cower and hide and not want to admit what we all know. By not admitting it, your only option is to admit that Blacks are superior runners to whites. Do you want to go down that path?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'll just reiterate:

Albert you are just simply wrong. End of story.

[SlowwHand]

The analysts said in the days leading up to, during and after the draft that if Gerhart was Black, he's go higher in the draft as a RB. It wasn't a single source deal, it was widespread.