Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

[Havak]

I'm not a religious man but I'll say a quick "Amen" to that Finbar.

I see Giteau is drawing a fair amount of criticism from Aussie fandom - as is Mitchell for his dithering in that try from Ashton....

[finbar]

Mitchell was always on a hiding to nothing with Ashton's speed and step. I wouldn't blame him. The stupidity that set up the try had already happened the length of the field away. Giteau has been playing on reputation for 12 months. Whether coincidence or not, he's been a shadow of what he was since the money problems with the Force and his return to the Brumbies. His S14 season was, by his terms, poor. I suspect Deans sees Berrick Barnes as more of a defensive, kicking 12. Well, his pass to set up Beale's second try on Saturday was sublime. Barnes will play against Italy. If he prospers, Giteau might find himself on the bench. That would be my option anyway.

[Havak]

Will be interesting if Mr Deans agrees with you.

Of course the turnover from Genia that led to that might well not have been legal - so as well as emulating the All Black strip with that weird anthracite get up we clearly learnt something from Richie the week earlier.

Youngs credits Matt O'Connor (Tigers Aussie coach) for his apporach to the game by the way - namely his willingness to take the riskier options.

And watching the game on a speed through again yesterday I didn't notice a single competitive scrum. Or even a reset. They all ended with a refs whistle (Penalty or free kick). They simply were not a feature in the game - which is quite bizarre. It ruined the old joke that shortly after the clocks go back so does the Aussie scrum.

[finbar]

Matt O'Connor might have helped Youngs but, given the unarguably ****e level of Leicester's back line play, he'd have to be considered a dud coach. Still, one diamond amongst a shedload of coal isn't bad going.

Who could possibly quibble over the Genia turnover when Hartley's try last week should have been denied on any of three grounds: (1) Ashton off side in front of the kicker; (2) forward pass to Hartley; (3) Hartley's placement of the ball clearly a double movement.

[Havak]

And the common factor with both players - kiwis by birth playing for Saints. A causal link?

Far be it from me to argue the unarguable point above.

btw O'Connor isn't the backs coach any longer - he is actually Head Coach.

[Havak]

Not really sure what to make of the Springbok situation - anything from flu medication to energy drinks are being pointed at from within the camp.

[finbar]

btw O'Connor isn't the backs coach any longer - he is actually Head Coach.

And he must be immensely proud of the recent run of outstanding success.

With the drugs found, it sounds like tainted something. Half a dozen samples of the same stuff turned up in swabs in Australia.

I fully expect Munster to overrun the midweek Wallabies tonight. The Paddys are fielding a more than respectable midweek team.

[Havak]

I am sure he is proud.

The LV cup has effectively been sidelined by the club Finbar - 12 of the 22 who took the field at Ospreys were Academy squad not senior squad and the remainder were mainly the fringe senior players.

You also kind of feel that Dom Waldoucks time will never come for England - not only ignored behind Tindall and an out of position Hape (plays OC for his club) he now gets injured ahead of the Samoa game (where I expected he might possibly get a look in) and is replaced in the squad by Allen.

You see I know one swallow does not a summer make and I remain far from convinced about our midfield pairing.

The visit of NZ to Ireland also intrigues me - the Irish lads are simply not producing the goods at the moment and NZ really are.

[kittenOFchaos]

Ireland were destroyed by NZ earlier this year...what happens to Ireland will be a useful benchmark for Scotland.

[finbar]

The ABs will need to be in better than first gear to beat the Irish even if the Irish aren't at their best. That's the difference between Ireland and Scotland, methinks. Hopefully the Irish do turn up because it could be a good contest between back rows and backlines. Elsewhere, the ABs look too powerful.

From the radio commentary, Munster didn't overrun the midweek Wallabies, just played the diabolical conditions better and profited from idiotic Wallaby discipline - two yellow cards and endless penalties. Though the radio commentary did produce an Irish gem - in the first half, the Wallabies had the gale of a wind at their backs and the Wallaby scrum splintered the Munster Men, earning a scrum penalty: "Ahhh, but the Wallaby pack had the wind behind them", opined the Irish commentator. God bless the Irish.

[Havak]

One of my very favourite countries to visit - a shame it got stupidly expensive after joining the Euro. I haven't been for two years now - and the Celtic Tiger has died since then so I must pop back and offer my small support to the boys. Totally off topic Finbar but have you seen the speculators are lining up the weak dominos? Ireland-Portugal-Spain and your own beloved Italy all in the firing line of speculators in the financial sector because of their debt problems. God bless the Irish - and god curse the free markets and their endless greed?

Anyway that was an aside:

"It was an absolutely ridiculous decision to turn around the original decision to ban him for four weeks (I thought that was light). For me watching it, he did it on purpose with intent to hurt. Mitigation that he was provoked (not proven) is no reason to cut the ban. Total rubbish and a step backwards for the disciplinary panel."

Not my words - those of Mr Guscott.

[finbar]

I don't think provocation played any part in the appeal decision. The act was deemed accidental - as opposed to premeditated - but careless. Accidental but careless will earn a suspension. It has before. But, of course, it was nothing like an accident. He clearly drove his head at Moody's.

Don't get me started on the *cough* free market. The world is going to hell in a handcart. Actually, Italy is way better off than the others on the list. The banks here are rock solid because they're so conservative - old-fashioned - that they still haven't heard of subprime mortgages. Such conservatism has its upsides and downsides. Internet banking is still in its absolute infancy here and even paying bills online is a novelty that few businesses have bothered to explore. There's little personal debt - Italians will, by preference, pay up front for everything - and the Government debt remains manageable. The fundamental difference here is that the debt boom that has sunk the other countries didn't happen here. Italy never booms. It just plugs along with Prime Ministers porking any ragazza within reach providing she's under 21. That's Italy.

[finbar]

Banahan into the centres. Probably his best option if he's going to make it at this level (which I think is questionable). His lumbering defence and sluggish skills are exposed on the wing. Haskell? Why? More than enough chances already. And an ageing Bok flanker? Why? Back to the same old questions.

[Havak]

Fourie is a decent enough player - but age is against him. Banahan has probably spent two seasons going backwards now and simply seems to be caryring too much weight for me.

Haskell defnitely has talent Finbar but is plagued by tales of poor attitiude ("brand Haskell" for example). Even with you recent observations of concern over Crofty core duties no one in their right mind is going to pick Haskell over him for a top tier clash. Which is not to disrespect Samoa - it will be on hell of a physical challenge and their broken field running is as dangerous as any NZ 'A' side from Oceania.

But I can ask another question - why was the woeful Borthwick stood by for so long? Why Nick Easter - even though he has lost weight and looks a bit more mobile for it - when Phil Dowson is by far the form English number 8 right now. I would suggest it is because Jonno is loyal to a fault - the operative word being fault. You have to beat him with a blunt stick to make him pick new options.

What he needs is to be in Robbie Deans position - less resources to pick from and therefore the absolute need to bring new players through.

But if we can change subject I noticed with amusement that after his charges blew two games in a row and have had a woeful year Gatland is claiming they are better than the 2008 slam side. They actually seem to lack the cutting edge that side had to me (and 2008 was a woeful six nations anyway!).

Gatland says: "We are playing the best teams in the world and we feel we are knocking on the door". But it is not true is it? The Boks and Aussies both produced strange and stuttering performances in Cardiff and yet Wales still could not close them out.

I have opined before - and I still believe it - that the tri-nations will always afford England more credibility than the celtic sides because they know irrespective of form that England are capable of turning up sometimes and asking serious questions. Although they are careful never to say so they must assume they will beat the celts - and in New Zealands case are absolutely sure that they will?

Take Australia - they will have been devastated last weekend but it still won't have had the mental effect on them that Murrayfield the year before did?

Ireland worry me a lot - they have been on a sine curve since the last RWC (very much in a trough right now) and the side is an aging one. Does the Irish provincial system have the strength to maintain the national sides competitiveness whilst there is a changing of the guard? Will be interesting to see.

[finbar]

Funnily enough, I was only reading yesterday that Banahan has lost weight. His lumbering qualities are always going to find him out at Test level. Haskell has ability but I don't think it's at Test level. He's style more than substance and essentially just a ball carrier. And a constant penalty magnet. He's old enough now, and he's had enough chances to make a mark.

The sad fact is that England's improvement has happened in spite of J****. He has only selected the appropriate talent when his hand has been forced.

Gatland is speaking to the Taffy fraternity and talking rubbish. It's a given that their Grand Slam was in a dud 6 Nations year, but, despite that, Wales had more of a cutting edge then than now. They've gone backwards.

Sexton at 10 for the Paddys bothers me. He hasn't developed as I thought he would. Ireland has always looked a lot of better when O'Gara has come on recently. We shall see.