Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

[Havak]

The fascinating thing there Finbar is that Manu actually showed quite good hands against Farce delivering some quality balls to BOD and the taffy winger (who showed a considerable willingness to come down the centre channel). Roberts is not nailed on yet although BOD would thrive outside him too. Fatland may have red blinkers but he is capable of being pragmatic. Personally I think Manu's physicality should ask the Wallabies defence more profound questions than Roberts can - but then I said the same in this thread before the autumn fixture! Still cannot figure how we lost that one.

I tell you who does seem to be in shaky form - Cole. He failed to really assert himself against the Farce pack.

*edit* So no video evidence at all and no physical evidence on the alleged victim? Starting to sound a very strange citing decision?

Mr Sharpe was bemoaning the lack of a national effort (a la 2001) to disrupt the Lions, perhaps he was in error?

You will note I have not followed the Lions to Oz this time - it's not a country I have any desire to revisit for sports reasons though I would be happy to return outside of sport. The fascist nature (and I do not use that word lightly) of the more extreme Australian fans has left a life-long impression on me. The only place I have ever felt less welcome as a rugby fan was the old national stadium in Cardiff (a place Mobius may remember fondly).

[finbar]

I don't blame you for not wanting to hurry back.

And now Gethin out of the tour. Props falling like - well, pigs.

Looks like Leu Bleus have turned up to play at Eden Park.

[finbar]

Only saw the first half of Lions-Reds. Cuthbert predictably exposed. Shame that Bowe is crocked, the Lions needed him. I suspect the Wallabies won't have minded seeing the Lions opened up by quick ball.

Scotland down to Samoa? Mmmm.

[Havak]

You were right that Reds offered a much more significant threat, always very dangerous with ball in hand. It was ultimately their shaky set pieces and poor defensive discipline that let Lions triumph. Gatland will be very concerned about the hat trick of botched clear cut chances however. And the butchers bill was a big one again – Bowe gone and Tuilagi's shoulder now a concern.

I called the welsh and NZ results but expected bigger margins – France turned up and Wales seem to have little strength in depth. And hopw about USA-Ireland? Just three points in it. Italy were game but the Boks just too powerful. As indeed were Samoa for a fairly light weight (literally I mean) Scottish outfit – but I'll not add to kOc's misery there.

Argentina made a huge mistake fielding a second string against the England 'pups' and will not repeat that error for the next test I suspect. They improved a great deal once Contepomi slipped back to stand off and it was good to see him still capable at 35 – though he still constantly yawps at the ref.

Gatland has very much named a dirt tracker side for tuesday and has Hogg at Fly half which will be interesting. I assume the third tier Lions will still be far too much for this combined territories side?

I did enjoy seeing the tahs stuff Farce - I am expecting them to give the Lions a very stern test next weekend.

Interesting all these years later how casually Macqueen eventually admitting using Scott Johnson in the earlier tour games in 2001 as a spy to suss the Lions line-out calls leading to a certain plank stealing a vital ball in the third test. The Lions fans knew at the time that the Aussies were consummate cheats both on and off the field (most NH fans are used to shenanigans on the field) but MacQueen of course vehemently denied this spying claims. Turns out he was being economical with the truth. What a surprise for an Aussie sporting coach to endorse 'cheating'.

[Havak]

Okay approaching half time and I am saying this fixture should not have happened - frankly it is very dangerous for the semi-pro guys, they are not physically up to this standard.

[finbar]

Couldn't agree more. It's a complete waste of time beyond the country blokes being able to tell their grandkids they played against the Lions.

[Havak]

They actually lost shape and concentration in the second half against Country but it was no more than an opposed training run.

This tahs fixture is far more tasty. Crofty has I think cemented his place in the test side.

Heading into the last 12 as I write. I am starting to think the test may be high scoring. The Lions defence has been exposed badly by tahs on occassions but they can score good tries as well.

*A very solid win in the end.

[kittenOFchaos]

Heading into the last 12 as I write. I am starting to think the test may be high scoring. The Liuons defence has been exposed badly by tahs on occassions but they can score good tries as well.

How much have you been drinking? Edit: timely edit

Really annoyed. Had Lions on -30 to win on two accumulators...they could have kicked it to a 33 point win...instead, lets mess up yet another scrum...hinging ffs, probably a duff call by the referee, but you've got to expect that. The referees rarely let teams get bullied in the scrum.

A VERY wasteful Lions squad...they should have won by far more and defensively, vulnerable. Seriously, their finishing wasn't particularly good.

Jonathan Davies, O'Connell (at least 5 turn-overs), Croft, Mako, Sexton, Alun-Wyn Jones and 1/2p were very, very good...Drew Mitchell, Foley and Carter for Waratahs.

Sky Sports kept on making a big deal of Jaime Roberts, but he was poor. He shouldn't be playing the first test (even if he is fit). I think Jonathan Davies deserves to play alongside O'Driscoll.

My surviving accumulator...

Rugby Union Pacific Nations Cup USA v Tonga Handicap Betting 15/06/2013 03:30 Tonga (-1.0) @ 10/11

Rugby Union International Matches Japan v Wales Handicap Betting 15/06/2013 06:00 Japan (+10.0) @ 10/11

Rugby Union International Matches New Zealand v France Handicap Betting 15/06/2013 08:35 New Zealand (-16.0) @ 20/21

Rugby Union Waratahs v British & Irish Lions Handicap Betting 15/06/2013 10:40 British & Irish Lions (-24.0) @ evens

Rugby Union International Matches Samoa v Italy Handicap Betting 15/06/2013 13:15 Samoa (-8.0) @ 20/21

Rugby Union International Matches South Africa v Scotland Handicap Betting 15/06/2013 16:15 South Africa (-27.0) @ 10/11

Rugby Union International Matches Argentina v England Handicap Betting 15/06/2013 20:10 England (-15.0) @ 20/21

Rugby Union International Matches Canada v Ireland Handicap Betting 16/06/2013 04:00 Canada (+9.0) @ 20/23

[kittenOFchaos]

Half time in South Africa...

South Africa 6 - Scotland 10

No-one expected this given the demolition job Samoa did (including injuries!) even though Scotland have a decent track record against South Africa in recent years. Wow.

The Scots are playing well enough to win this!

[kittenOFchaos]

Half time in South Africa...

South Africa 6 - Scotland 10

No-one expected this given the demolition job Samoa did (including injuries!) even though Scotland have a decent track record against South Africa in recent years. Wow.

Could South Africa still win by 27? Certainly, but the Scots are playing well enough to win this!

[Havak]

Ner a drop had touched my lips.

Scotland played really well, I think without big Jim getting carded they would have gone on to take it. I got it totally wrong I must admit - and it looks as if you went for the same Bok handicap as me? - although I had done well on Japan, NZ and the Lions (and I always have Crofty to score a try)

Accumulators are too scary for me.

Bit annoyed at the late withdrawal of Wade from the England game - Gatland getting his own back for Wales woeful loss earlier in the day? And interesting to see Wales back to their old self and proving they have no strength in depth?

Wade has played one test - last week - so is a fascinating call up. Bound to feature against brumbies.

And sad to see the Aussie media doing an end run on poor old Bob Dwyer like that. The Aussie media accusing the opposition of cheating is standard fare and done by them without any sense of irony on their part. No perspective of pot and kettle for the Aussie media.

[kittenOFchaos]

and I always have Crofty to score a try

Very sensible.

Likewise, Ben Foden is a really good option, particularly in tough games.

[finbar]

Shane Williams called up. So North must be more crocked than is being suggested. So Cuthbert nailed on for one wing spot. Yum yum. Defensive disaster waiting to happen.

Brumbies will put up a decent show on Tuesday. Jake White has drilled strong defence into them and they have a reasonable set of forwards. Their problem in S15 is being able to change gears. Missing Lealiifano with the Wallabies won't help them.

[Havak]

The Lions are still a stronger outfit on paper - even this dirt tracker selection. However Brumbies are a very familiar combination - the Lions boys anything but. Going to be very interesting.

The selection tells us the test side too, subject to fitness. I would expect:

15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Brian O'Driscoll, 12 Jonathan Davies, 11 George North, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Mike Phillips, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Tom Croft, 5 Paul O'Connell, 4 Alun-Wyn Jones, 3 Adam Jones, 2 Tom Youngs, 1 Mako Vunipola.

So welcome to the Welsh and Irish Lions - and you are, welcome to them I mean. Fatland stands guilty of the selection bias everyone expected and all the warm up games have done to change it would be Crofty displacing O'Brien?

What worries me more is B.Youngs starting against ACT means Fatland is thinking Murray for the test bench - the Flanker Phillips having already got the nine shirt (Genia must be licking his lips at the prospect of facing such a lumbering hulk at scrum time?). Will Hogg, Maitland or Gray be the token Scot on the bench I wonder? One of the two backs for me as Richie just has not shown any kind of form? Plus I think Parling is a better bench option anyway.

British and Irish Lions Warren - do you STILL need that explaining to you at this stage? Not starting a Scot is probably right on form - but you will not be liked for it. And you did see how Ireland fared in the 6N yes?

I simply don't trust Welsh players* in any big match other than against England so whilst the bookies still have the Lions as slight favourites my instinct says the Wallabies actually are.

A real shame about Tuilagi's shoulder - him and BOD a far more dangerous combo than Davies and BOD?

*Halfpenny excepted - an ice cool high quality player that one.

By the way apparently Argentina had agreed with the French clubs that none of their players would feature against England. My two observations to that would be that the IRB needs to break the power of the French clubs if they are dictating international selections (and they have history of not releasing players too) but I also have to say that the Pumas entirely deserved their home series loss for going along with it. Even with the rested players back in I expect the Pumas to struggle in the Championship this year.

[finbar]

Davies isn't a 12 but might finish up there by default. Fatland's fault for picking such an unbalanced collection of centres. I suspect BOD will spend most of his time at 12 or none of the other backs will see the ball. Phillips is nailed on and I think you're right about Murray, who is Mini-Mike. Just ridiculous. Neither bother the Wallabies, Youngs does. I would start Zebo in front of Cuthbert but Fatland won't. The Reds sorted out Cutherbert very quickily, the Wallabies will too. I can see Zebo on the bench covering wing and FB. I can also AWJ losing his cool and being carded too. And will Vunipola scrummage legally? That's the big question. His preference is to drive sideways. Hopefully the ref watches him.

Oh, and Halfpenny is top quality. Great little player.