Apolyton Fantasy Football D/ST League Draft

[snoopy369]

You're not listening to my argument. Why can't I draft Matt Ryan and put him in the flex spot? Because it wouldn't be good for the balance of the game. Same here.

Note: 14th TE scored 122 last year. 80th WR/RB scored 119 last year. Coincidence? I don't think so... That's why it's balanced that way - the last starter for WR/RB is about equal to the last starter for TE. Adding in more TEs will end up artificially inflating the value of the TE in a way that isn't useful for game balance.

[Al B. Sure!]

The fact is, if the top TE's all go early and you're stuck with a crappy TE... you have the advantage of having picked an RB or WR (which are generally more valuable selections ANYWAY!) while everyone else was getting their TE's or 2 TE's.

[MRT144]

Al/MRT: The issue (for me at least) is that allowing TEs to be in an extra position will move up the TE drafting position. Even if it doesn't move it up much, it certainly will have the effect of causing TEs to be drafted slightly earlier. That's simple economics. As far as I'm concerned the only reason to add TE to the flex spot is to do so - and I don't think that's a desirable effect.

The reason RB/WR exists is to help balance the RB and WR selections in the middle rounds - if RBs go too early, then WR can be drafted later, or vice versa. Adding TE to that mix is unnecessary (there are plenty of WR/RB total to balance each other) and would alter the balance of TE vs (WR/RB), which I think is appropriate as is. You don't define positions just to be 'realistic' or to "let MRT do what he wants"; you define them to create a competitive, balanced game. There simply isn't reason to adjust the balance towards TEs.

I object to the idea given that there is already a complete scarcity of RBs at this point of the draft on a draft that had more early QB selections than any draft i can remember. The only reason to adjust the balance towards favoring TE selection is because so many other options have already been taken. The entire concept of balancing between RBs and WRs is fallacious given the current options at the positions.

[Jaguar]

As much as I appreciate the continued drive to change random (perfectly reasonable) rules retroactively mid-draft, I'm not entertaining any changes to the scoring system or the BAPAY method.

[Al B. Sure!]

As much as I appreciate the continued drive to change random (perfectly reasonable) rules retroactively mid-draft, I'm not entertaining any changes to the scoring system or the BAPAY method.

I see that as a tradeoff of slightly uglier-looking lineup screens vs the very slim chance that someone would ever want to start a second TE.

I'm indifferent. You're right, it's not a big deal.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5837639&postcount=106

You said you were indifferent when Berzerker asked to add TE to Flex. Uglier-looking lineup screens? Who cares. If that's the only objection you see, let's add the ability to start a 2nd TE.


(Disclosure: I don't even have a single TE so I'm not benefiting from this at all. MRT is one of only three posters to have TE's right now so they're the only ones who could possibly benefit but who cares? Let them get 2 TE's while the rest of us grab the last solid RB's and WR's; MRT only has one RB and it's a questionable pick to begin with; He would only gain an advantage so far as he becomes less uncompetitive than the rest of us... and he losses out because he'll have a REALLY crappy #2 RB if he gets a second TE with his next pick)

[snoopy369]

There most certainly will be no changes to the rules at this point, Al. We've all been drafting based on the rules as in Yahoo - regardless of any discussions prior - and will continue to do so.

For the record, I thought we've always BAPAYed different positions differently (ie, RB before QB before WR before TE, or some approximation thereof); if you don't want to, that's fine, but I think it rather odd. I can't remember a time when we've given someone a K in a BAPAY before a DEF, despite a few Ks being highly ranked in Yahoo occasionally.

[MRT144]

You know, I'm fine with it not being changed this year, but I think it's something to consider next year. I think it would add to more strategic drafting options. I would have taken Clark and Gates back to back if the TE was in the Flex and would have passed up on Colston. Is that really a bad thing for other people to still have Colston out there?

[Al B. Sure!]

I just don't understand how this was brought up BEFORE we drafted by Berzerker and Jaguar gave a non-answer about it's not a big deal. Only reason why we don't have TE's in flex is because it makes the screens look cluttered. That's the only reason he gave! And implied it would be changed when he said "You're right. It's not a big deal"

And now, it's become some holy sacred thing that everyone has been drafting according to.

Get the **** out of here

If I want to start 2 TE's there's absolutely no good reason why I shouldn't be able to. TE's are almost always less valuable than RB's and WR's to begin with, as Jaguar pointed out!

(again, I don't have a TE so I'm not benefiting at all; it's just I don't see the point in this restriction. It was clearly an oversight and nothing with any perceived bearing on positional balance or rules)

[Al B. Sure!]

not a big deal but can we expand the flex spot to include TE?

wow, cj is #1 by a longshot

I see that as a tradeoff of slightly uglier-looking lineup screens vs the very slim chance that someone would ever want to start a second TE.

I'm indifferent. You're right, it's not a big deal.

I take that as in, Jaguar was going to add that functionality if someone wanted it.

MRT wants it. So add TE's to Flex.

[snoopy369]

Then why can't I start two QBs? Or two DEFs?

TEs are less valuable than individual WR/RB. However, the 80th WR/RB is equivalent to the 14th TE. Therefore I think they're about equally valuable in the game as it stands. Adding flex would mean 75 WR/RB vs 19 TEs (say)... meaning instead of 120/120 you have 130/89 or so. That would overvalue TEs, and (like Jaguar points out) cause people to have to start random TEs that aren't really pass catching TEs, who they can't even name... not fun, and not good for game balance.

In any event, we draft under the present Yahoo rules; that's always been the case. I made goofy yahoo rules one year in hockey, accidentally (some weird goalie stat), and we still drafted under it and kept it - because it wasn't caught until too late, and thus it wasn't fair to change it. Same here.

[MRT144]

I think the absurd objection is that it'll move the TE drafting position up. So what? That makes it a much more strategic choice just like awarding 6 points for passing TDs and .5 for completions moves up QBs. Also, isn't it more fun for everyone to have more options than people getting dicked in a 14 person draft by not selecting RB-RB-WR? Also, If I selected two TE's right now, I'd likely not have any running backs that would put up any points consistently at all.

Here's the way I see it; If a prized position like RB is given even more incentive to select due to it being flex possible, why not give similar incentive to TE's? Berzerkers pick of Addai pushed the best back available to me back by one because he can play him in the flex. If the flex wasn't there I highly doubt Berzerker would've gone with a third running back.

[Al B. Sure!]

We don't start 2 QB's because they score 250+ points each! That's why.

As for this draft strategy thing, hey frankly, what if since I read the exchange between Berzerker and Jaguar, this whole time, I've thought TE's could be flexed? What if I've been drafting accordingly?

Jaguar implied that it would be changed if anyone wanted to do it.

I think Jaguar needs to come in here and clarify and explain a good reason (besides screens being cluttered) why TE's can't be flexed. And also clarify his original response to Berzerker.

[Al B. Sure!]

lol. I got too hyped and didn't think.

42nd RB can start

[Jaguar]

01.01 Jonny - Chris Johnson - RB - TEN
01.02 Berzerker - Maurice Jones-Drew - RB - JAX
01.03 snoopy - Ray Rice - RB - BAL
01.04 Flash9286 - Adrian Peterson - RB - MIN
01.05 Jaguar - Peyton Manning - QB - IND
01.06 Al B. - Frank Gore - RB - SF
01.07 MRT - Aaron Rodgers - QB - GB
01.08 Spaced Cowboy - Michael Turner - RB - ATL
01.09 OzzyKP - Drew Brees - QB - NO
01.10 joncha - Rashard Mendenhall - RB - PIT
01.11 duke o' york - Matt Schaub - QB - HOU
01.12 Imran - Steven Jackson - RB - StL
01.13 Guynemer - Tony Romo - QB - DAL
01.14 Sloww - Ryan Mathews - RB - SD

02.14 Sloww - Tom Brady - QB - NE
02.13 Guynemer - Larry Fitzgerald - WR - ARI
02.12 Imran - Joe Flacco - QB - BAL
02.11 duke o' york - Miles Austin - WR - DAL
02.10 joncha - Phillip Rivers - QB - SD
02.09 OzzyKP - Andre Johnson - WR - HOU
02.08 Spaced Cowboy - DeAngelo Williams RB - CAR
02.07 MRT - Calvin Johnson - WR - DET
02.06 Al B. - Randy Moss - WR - NE
02.05 Jaguar - Jamaal Charles - RB - KC
02.04 Flash9286 - Reggie Wayne - WR- IND
02.03 snoopy - Roddy White - WR - ATL
02.02 Berzerker - Ryan Grant - RB - GB
02.01 Jonny - Eli Manning - QB - NYG

03.01 Jonny - DeSean Jackson - WR - PHI
03.02 Berzerker - Joseph Addai - RB - IND
03.03 snoopy - Pierre Thomas - RB - NO
03.04 Flash9286 - Brandon Marshall - WR - MIA
03.05 Jaguar - Greg Jennings - WR - GB
03.06 Al B. - Shonn Greene - RB - NYJ
03.07 MRT - Marques Colston - WR - NO
03.08 Spaced Cowboy - Steve Smith - WR - CAR
03.09 OzzyKP - Cedric Benson - RB - CIN
03.10 joncha - Sidney Rice - WR - MIN
03.11 duke o' york - Knowshon Moreno - RB - DEN
03.12 Imran - Beanie Wells - RB - ARI
03.13 Guynemer - Jonathan Stewart - RB - CAR
03.14 Sloww - Jahvid Best - RB - DET

04.14 Sloww - Anquan Boldin - WR - BAL
04.13 Guynemer - Felix Jones - RB - DAL
04.12 Imran - Steve Smith - WR - NYG
04.11 duke o' york - Hines Ward - WR - PIT
04.10 joncha - Ronnie Brown - RB - MIA
04.09 OzzyKP - Dallas Clark - TE - IND
04.08 Spaced Cowboy - Mike Sims-Walker - WR - JAX
04.07 MRT - Antonio Gates - TE - SD
04.06 Al B. - Brett Favre - QB - MIN
04.05 Jaguar - Matt Forte - RB - CHI
04.04 Flash9286 - Kevin Kolb - QB- PHI
04.03 snoopy - LeSean McCoy - RB - PHI
04.02 Berzerker - Vernon Davis - TE - SF
04.01 Jonny - Chad Ochocinco - WR - CIN

05.01 Jonny - Percy Harvin - WR - MIN
05.02 Berzerker - Wes Welker - WR - NE
05.03 snoopy - Jay Cutler - QB - CHI
05.04 Flash9286 - Justin Forsett - RB - SEA
05.05 Jaguar - Dwayne Bowe - WR - KC
05.06 Al B. - Michael Crabtree - WR - SF
05.07 MRT - CJ Spiller - RB - BUF
05.08 Spaced Cowboy -
05.09 OzzyKP -
05.10 joncha -
05.11 duke o' york -
05.12 Imran -
05.13 Guynemer -
05.14 Sloww -

[Jaguar]

Something else to think about is the fact that there are 32 starting TE's in the league, 32 starting RB's, and 64 starting WR's.

It is retarded that we can only start 14 TE's league-wide when we also can start 64 or even 96 RB's league wide.

The 96th RB in the league can start but the 15th TE can't. What the hell?

I seriously wonder about your mathematical aptitude. 96 RBs starting? That would require each owner to start SEVEN running backs.