Rugby - Six Nations, S14, Lions, Can't Wait

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Lamb isn't Geraghty. It will be their speed that will cause the problems. Still, if Scarlets can beat them ...

[Havak]

But that is the scary thing Finbar - Tigers are not a great side right now but on the day are capable of beating any side in the British Isles, including Exiles.

What we will do of course is try to close them down just as in the final last year. As long as I have watched them Tigers sides have excelled at squeezing opposition in that way. But it is rugby for the dedicated fan only.

I am coming around to thinking the high presence of workmanlike imports is bearing the fruit you always thought it would - average Premierships sides across the board and average English players within them.

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I'd've thought logic had to dictate that a plethora of good, solid foreign players - as distinct from outstanding foreign players - must make for a good, solid competition as opposed to, well, the obvious.

I've been interested to see, for example, Julian Salvi at Bath. He quit the Brumbies because his competition was George Smith. Without George, he probably would have had a regular spot, but he was never better than solid, never ever threatened to be a Wallaby. Mobile, good skills. Probably more mobile and with better skills than the average English flanker. Now he's making an impact at Bath. But it's all relative. More often than not, his opposition makes him look better than he is.

Anyway, a plethora of good, solid foreign players at a time when England simply isn't producing very much outstanding talent - which, of course, is cyclical - can't make for an outstanding competition.

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So Irish beat Leicester to go to the top of the table. The best that can be said is that they deserved to win on the basis that they actually tried to play rugby. Not very well, with handling errors killing them time and again. As predicted by our resident Tiger, Leicester tried to shut down Irish. They rarely tried to play rugby, and when they did, the limitations were exposed with poor handling and disorder in the backline - Grindal and Staunton just aren't good enough; Allen is average at best; and the sooner the embarrassingly fragile Amorosino is sacked the better. Only Hipkiss showed anything like quality from very limited opportunities. Ben Youngs might have concentration problems over 80 minutes, but he at least seems to know what he's doing.

But what's the point of setting out to shut down an opposition with ill-disciplined dolts like Jordan Crane gifting so many easily kickable penalties? Crane was yellow carded last week and he could and should have been again yesterday. He's not even clever. His offences are blatant, cynical and unmissable. You have to wonder whether Richard Cockerill is getting through to Jordan Crane. Assuming he's trying.

Anyway, in terms of the chat about the quality of English club rugby, Irish went to the top of the ladder winning a very poor match. Yes, there was pressure, but so many errors - on both sides - were unforced.

Again, in terms of the recent chat, I counted 9 foreign players in the Irish 22. Reading Exiles are, in fact, South Seas Exiles. With Julian White on the field, the two front rows were 2/3rd foreign. As soon as White left the field, the front rows were 5/6th foreign.

Given your current injury plight, J****, draw your own conclusions.

[Havak]

And White's injury looked nasty - a torn hamstring apparrently. As did both the hyper-extension to Tom's knee and the blow he took in the face.

At the moment we face the autumn possibly without one of our very few world class players. I thought Armitage looked quite good for the seven shirt though?

Easter was injured on Saturday and is on crutches - which pushes the penalty liability (and I agree with you there) very close to the England 8 shirt.

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Armitage is still learning but I'd have him in front of Moody. A pity Moody undermined a very strong game with his trademark silliness.

[Havak]

Fair enough comment I think.

I was just reading a list of the players out through injury. It would make for a pretty decent side all told.

Our best hope is that the Wallabies get stage fright I think. Although they had an appalling tri-nations in the end, one very impressive game aside. As immortalised in your sig Finbar.

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Who knows with the Wallabies? When they put their minds to it, they can compete with the best. When they put their minds to it. Leadership is so important, and George Smith proved he wasn't up to it. Rocky has the potential so let's see what happens.

I assume you can explain why J**** has picked the Bath second-string prop in lieu of Flatman. Blaze is a fair enough selection, and I've liked the look of Courtney Lawes, but he's raw in the extreme. I shouldn't grizzle about J**** opting for youth, but I refuse to believe that Nick Kennedy isn't in the top half dozen locks. The Wallaby locking department, in particular, is thin and undersized. Kennedy would cut their lineout to shreds. Obviously J**** questions his value in the loose, and with Borthwick already famously useless in the loose, I suppose he thinks he needs some muscle insurance.

Apart from that, Crane seems to be a certainty by default; the 10-12 axis is short of cover; and you can bet the oppo will be hoping Foden starts at full back. Fine attacking player, zip idea in defence.

[Havak]

I hope you get to see Lawes Finbar - he is in on merit this season. Blaze also gets his chance. My suspicion is the fit again Deacon or even Kay will partner Borthwick though.

Only Crane or Haskell can take the eight shirt.

*Correction* Lawes can play there too - and should be dynamic enough to satisfy the SH pundits.

But up front - oh boy. Yes there are serious injury problems at prop including the first four choices of youngsters in the Saxons but Barnes, Bell and Wilson are nothing more than good club players. Payne has never convinced me either. There were younger players than the Bath trio of comparable quality - and youth should really have won.

That said if he has the courage to pick a back line of (for example) Wilko-Geragthy-Hipkiss-Strettle-Foden-Banahan that would ask the SH sides more questions than I think they are expecting from England this time around. We shall see.



Steffon Armitage (London Irish), David Barnes (Bath Rugby), Duncan Bell (Bath Rugby), Richard Blaze (Leicester Tigers), Steve Borthwick (Saracens, captain), George Chuter (Leicester Tigers), Jordan Crane (Leicester Tigers), Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Stade Francais), Ben Kay (Leicester Tigers), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Lewis Moody (Leicester Tigers), Tim Payne (London Wasps), Steve Thompson (CA Brive), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Joe Worsley (London Wasps).

Backs:

Matt Banahan (Bath Rugby), Danny Care (Harlequins), Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Shane Geraghty (Northampton Saints), Andy Goode (CA Brive), Dan Hipkiss (Leicester Tigers), Paul Hodgson (London Irish), Ugo Monye (Harlequins), David Strettle (Harlequins), Mathew Tait (Sale Sharks), Mike Tindall (Gloucester Rugby), Richard Wigglesworth (Sale Sharks), Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon).

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I think we cross-posted. Have you seen Foden at full back? Oppo tries waiting to happen. Then again, Tait aside, I can't see any alternatives.

[Havak]

We did cross, apologies.

Cueto would be the alternative. Not an impressive one however. As you note Foden can be very impressive going forward. And lary in retreat. I'd prefer Tait there perhaps - more controlled and better defensively. The single tackle that made a tangerine career is well behind Tait now.

I don't know the deal with Kennedy. Jonno is either seeing (or maybe not seeing) something we are not picking up. Blaze is certainly a more all round option. Lawes a wild card. Deacon and Kay men he knows well - and he has proven to be conservative in this regard. To my dismay. Kay is playing well for a man his age - and Deacon doing well on his return from injury. But Kennedy is ahead of both. Blaze I like what I have seen of him. Lawes I would like to se because he is not the typical type England would pick at either lock or 8. He is the fight fire with fire option?

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With Kennedy, I think it's just a case of him being too similar to Borthwick, though, obviously, a whole lot better than him. With J**** fixated on Borthwick, Kennedy will never get a run. Shame. He's lovely to watch.

Yes, Lawes is far from typically English in terms of back rows or locks. As, of course, is Tom Croft. Both are more SH in style and attitude. I doubt Lawes will get a run but he would be fun to see.

I suspect your dream backline will be sunk by the inclusion of He Who Slips It To The Royal.

[Havak]

Unfortunately I think you are right.

Not quite a dream backline - but a semi-decent one to find amongst the chaff given the injury turmoil.

I think England just need to find some confidence. They are not a great side, not even a good one, but without wishing to open old arguments the autumn opposition is not stellar right now either. Even this England should test them a little.

I do find it amusing that Guscott is currently claiming both Wales and Ireland should beat the SH sides at home 'more often than not'. I disagree. Wales open game plays right into SH hands. Ireland on the other hand - maybe could do so right now. Maybe - and as long as the Boks are not involved.

England's perfomance in the autumn relies heavily on whether Wilko and Croft get the freedom to express themselves I suspect. The former won't if the umpteenth in line to the throne is on his shoulder.

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Who - Andydog aside - would disagree that the SH visitors are hardly firing on all cylinders? Well, the Boks were, a lot of the time, and you have to assume they will again. Frankly, I think England will need their pack to at least hold their own with what's going to be a suspect front row. If Wilko struggles to get decent ball, Geraghty - whom I assume will play 12 - will, too, and so on and so forth. If they get onto the front foot, and if Geraghty can produce what he did against Munster, and link up with Banahan - whom I assume will start - he will scare the bejeesus out of one or more of the visitors. I haven't seen a braver, more skilful, more challenging effort than that one against Munster for a very long time.

[Havak]

Indeed. That game has catapulted Lawes into contention given he faced down the incumbent Irish Slam winning locks.

I'm sure Andydog will have his own view.

But with England not due to play the Boks all three games should be winnable. Which does not mean I expect them to win them - just that they could do so.

Banahan and Strettle seems favourites for the wing berths.

Oh and the props are suspect but the hookers are solid enough. Hartley is in pole there.