Rugby - Six Nations, S14, Lions, Can't Wait

[Havak]

Leinster were worthy winners - should have stressed that yesterday.

Why would Tigers - a side with Ellis and Ben Youngs on the books - sign Whittaker in his dotage? Then again why did we sign Dupuy? Dupuy is supposed to be on contract for next season - not that this can stop French clubs buying him out of course (see Wilko the crock).

Yes that back row could do with a bit more of the Heinz 57 puppies - I wonder where it will come from though.

[finbar]

I have no idea why the obsession with Dupuy over Ellis. He doesn't do anything Ellis can't do and Vesty seems to be a more reliable goal kicker. In fact Ellis' service is consistently better, and Ellis is more aggressive while Dupuy is a wriggler into small spaces. The match-winning try against Bath obviously earned him brownie points.

You want a mongrel backrower? There are a handful of them running around with Australian S14 teams, several with the Queensland Reds, with the Reds' current plight none of their fault. In fact, Elsom's time with Leinster has improved his game a lot. He was always excellent in the loose, but the rough and tough, close-quarters play has been the making of him.

[LDiCesare]

Leicester missed a 10. Vesty' kicking was poor, and noone could find a decent lineout after Murphy got hurt.
Apart from that, Elsom was awesome. Hipkiss was good. The English lineout was pitiful until Deacon came in.

[finbar]

Good grief. Goode/Turner-Hall/Noon. If ever you needed to define lack of creativity, look no further. A plodder and two crash-ballers. Sigh.

[Havak]

Actually Deacon does look sharp now he is fit again. He plays for England tomorrow and I find myself in the sad position of being more interested in that game than the Lions one.

Perhaps the key to Dupuy is that difference in style - Youngs is in the Ellis mould.

And please email those Reds loosies - we'll take any that qualify as English (via a grandparents pet). I'm told the Academy is supplying a back rower to the Seniors for next season who is promising but I could get no name. I'll let you know.

Turner-Hall wasn't just a crash baller last time I looked at him - but then he has bulked up a lot this season.

Here's cheering you on for tomorrow Royal Highveld XV.

ps Which Franchise is Elsom returning to?

[finbar]

Rocky's 99.99% certain to join the Brumbies.

Hugh McMenamin is, apparently, leaving the Reds for overseas. Plays lock and flanker. Bigger than Elsom, very mobile, but not (yet) of Rocky's class. Was on the last NH tour. Mad as a meat axe. His problem has been a cruel series of injuries. He hasn't got close to playing a full season for a few years. Not really sure why he's leaving apart from money. He certainly had a future with the Wallabies. I'm sure one of his distant relatives had some kippers for breakfast one morning. That surely qualifies him.

Turner-Hall can do more than just crash-ball but it's mainly what I saw him do this season.

I get to watch the Lions on Sky tomorrow.

Just noticed that Ratu Nasiganiyavi is on the bench for the Barbs tomorrow. He's a monster winger with extraordinary pace from the Waratahs. Could be fun if he gets a run.

[finbar]

Cripes, I've just seen the England-Barbs score.

Anyways, McGeechan probably thought his day couldn't get much worse until he watched the Bulls utterly demolish the Chiefs.

[Havak]

Yes England were off the pace for 60 mins, with an error count to match the lions. Not great preparation for the Puma tests, though it was a really enjoyable game.

Moment of the game for me - Banahan strolling through a Howlett tackle just before half time. That boy might be special if he keeps developing the way he is.

The lions were even more interesting. Of the starting XV only a few staked test claims - Byrne was a class apart, Roberts strong, O'Connell and O'Gara worked hard. bowe was okay.

Many others made their chances much slimmer. Personally I disagree with Shaun Edwards who thought Shane had a good game - I thought both Williams were well off the pace. some can pack their bags on that performace - Shaw, Wallace, Rees, Jones and Blair. Maybe Earls too.

And my backing the Bulls clearly did the trick too. I did so mainly because the Chiefs coach is heading for Wasps - and I'll back anyone against Wasps men (which is of course partly why I am supporting the Boks against the celtic Lions)

corry was immense for the Baa-baas - amazing given his knees are held together with good will only. His final game is against Australia.

[classical_hero]

No Australian teams in the S14 finals. Unsurprising. The Reds have been destroyed by injury. The Farce's very potent backline is undermined by some very ordinary forwards, though they should do better than they have. I suspect there are still internal issues with John Mitchell and his ugly personality. The Brumbies suffered for too long throughout the season with sub-standard halves, though next season, with Giteau and Valentine on board, things could be very very different.

The Force should have made it this season, except the blew too many games at home. They lost to the Blues, when they should have and they should never had lost to the Hurricanes at home after leading by 11 point with 4 minute to go. was so furious after watching that game that I stormed off to the train station. Winning those games would have meant that we would have made the finals. But you can see the fact how well the Force did by how many members made the Wallabies squad. Shepherd would have been in if not for the fact that he has had too many injuries and is recovering from that, so that would have been another force player in the squad. Now I know you don't think much of our forwards, but that has been the biggest improvement all season, since previously they were terrible, but this season they improved, so that is why we have seen a few more fowards this year. We already had an all Wallaby back line, but just some simple errors cost us.

[finbar]

I saw quite a lot of Banahan through the GP season. He can be very dangerous in the right circumstances but I think he's still a one-trick pony. His game is found wanting elsewhere, particularly when he loses concentration and wanders, leaving acres of space outside him.

I'd agree with your list of Lions goods and bads. Byrne was pure class, the difference between a resounding loss and the immensely flattering final result. I thought Shane was as he was through most of the 6 Nations - under par against what he can do. Jamie Roberts was strong, but I think his limitations will be exposed against the Bok defence. Mike Blair was worse than poor, shown up by a kid with a lot of devil in him, and that set the pattern for a lot of the day with the Lions on the back foot.

It's hard to know what it all means in the scheme of things. First match together, rustiness for quite a few of the players. In fact, they played like they'd never met before. What struck me, though, was the seeming lack of camaraderie. You had to feel sorry for Earls for his opening ten minutes, but I didn't see too many teammates looking after his spirits.

I also suspect POC's captaincy was exposed. There's no questioning his work rate, but there's more to leadership than that when the team is in trouble. Hullo Steve Borthwick, who doesn't even have anything like POC's work rate.

As for the Bulls, it's a long time since I've seen such a magical meld of brute strength and great skill. And bear in mind that Pierre Spies had, for him, a very quiet day. Dupreez and Steyn are going to be taking on the Lions and I really can't see anyone in the Lions squad equalling or stopping them. Ditto the second row and back row. Unless the fruit loop Bok coach manages somehow to stuff things up, I can see a truth being exposed - there's no great depth of quality in British and Irish rugby at the moment.

The Force should have made it this season, except the blew too many games at home.

True. And, yes, the forwards did improve somewhat. The thing is, regardless of the forwards, the backs just about always saw enough of the ball. They should have won many more games. Same story last season. I think a major part of the problem is off the field. He's called John Mitchell.

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Josh Lewsey, perverse to the end, delivers J**** and his team a backhander:

“We could have gone on to score 50 or 60 points, realistically,” Lewsey, who set up Iain Balshaw's opening try with a deft grubber-kick, said. “But looking at it objectively, it was in everyone's interests to even the game up and the referee did that at the breakdown with about 30 minutes to go. It would have been wrong for England to have gone away with a humiliating scoreline.

[Havak]

Quite - Waugh's yellow card, thoroughly deserved, let England back in to the game.

A much better showing will be needed to beat the Pumas. great weekend coming up with the Churchill cup also starting.

I think you are right about Banahan's faults - there is just something primal about watching a 6'7" 18 stone monster thunder through people. Poor Doug Howlett also saw the ball taken above his head for Matt's late try.

Spot on - no great depth in those nations Ireland and Wales. England are a different matter of course - the future is very rosy. Three squads are currently on tour for us - Seniors, Saxons and U20s. The latter two are pretty good.

Seriously try to catch our U20s - there's a few very promising boys there (naturally I need to big up Tigers lads Toinks and Hurrell).

It's a better Lions team for wednesday. Greatly improved by the presence of BOD and Croft alone. I prefer the coal face - Jenkins is the best loose head in the 6N when he finds his best form. Mears I am no fan of but he is far the best hooker on tour. And the bull is 6 years past his best and still beter than the hair bear last saturday. Mind you the locks look weak and I'm not convinced by Wallace. And Monye shouldn't even be on tour IMO. Plus Ellis on the bench means no test chance for him whatsoever

You see I don't just pick on the over represented welsh and irish - the English mis-picks are just as baffling.

[finbar]

This is the England depth that extends all the way from Steve Borthwick to Jamie Noon? M-hm.

I think it was the U21s where I first saw T. Croft score that remarkable try. Of course I've seen him score a few very similar ones since. I'll look out for the babies. Obviously none of the matches will make it onto Sky Italy.

The Lions team does look considerably better. But looking at the selected Bok squad - begorrah, there's some talent, muscle and brute strength. Unless there's some sort of collective Bulls let down after the S14 final, I worry for the Lions. I was glad to see J. DeVilliers available for selection, though I'm not sure he will start first up. Missed a lot of the S14 season through injury. Best #12 in the world by a metric mile. He can do everything Jamie Roberts can, and a shedload more.

What on earth is happening at Bath? Plank obviously got out before he could be kicked out, and the Three Amigos seem to be doing the same thing, using the cover of a lawsuit.

[Havak]

It is fascinating isn't it? Poor old Bath.

I think you fingered the depth perfectly - what talented footballers Steve and Jamie are. Association football presumably.

What I like about the youngsters is there are some very promising backs amongst them, but yes it does need them to convert promise to reality. I remember watching Ross Broadfoot for the U18s many years ago and thinking I was seeing a threat to Wilko's spot (in the team, not on the treatment table!). He never developed that early promise.

Well the tests are a dead loss Finbar - they were as soon as the squad was announced. And I am more worried about tomorrow now I have counted how many Ospreys are involved.

Now I'm off to work out how Nathan Hines was a pick for the squad - he left better Irish and English locks out.

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Hines baffled me, too, from the outset. I assume he was chosen because he's, well, tough. Not as tough as the Bok locks, who are considerably more skilful than he is, too.

I completely forgot about last night's match. Turned it on in time to catch the last five minutes. Reports are that it was a try-scoring romp. Ultimately as meaningless as the match last weekend. The Lions (the Bok version) were the easybeats of the S14 comp this season. And last season. And the season before. And they sacked their coach last week because of the team's abysmal performance. The Lions (the non-Bok version) will probably draw confidence from the effort, but the real test (so to speak) is yet to come.

Rocky Elsom has signed with the Brumbies. With Matt Giteau returning, and with Josh Valentine following him across from the Farce, the Brumbies could prove a handful next season.