Torre declines 1-year offer from Yanks

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by reismark

*Family Feud Buzzer*

Torre actually got that extension before the 2004 season, months before the collapse against the Red Sox. And if he hadn't, while he probably would have gotten a new contract anyway, you can be damn sure it wouldn't have been in the $7.5 mil range.

I stand corrected.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
First 5 years, he was like a god in NY.
The first few failures after 2000 were easily forgiven.
It was the historic implosion to the Red Sox that created the real discontent.

Funny thing is, it was after that disaster that they gave him the current contract.

And of course that disaster was mostly about the lack of pitching on the 2004 team (and the pitching on the 2004 Red Sox), not Torre. I can't think of tactical errors on his part in games 4-7 off the top of my head (unlike I can, say, for the 2003 WS). I suppose one could quibble with bringing in Vasquez to face Damon, but there weren't many options there. I'm not sure there is a single manager in the majors who would've thought to go to Mo there (and even if you do go to Mo there and he stops the bleeding, you still need a bundle of innings after that).

But yeah, had they made a decision on him immediately after the '04 ALCS, Torre would've been gone.

Anyway, here's another way of looking at things:

Torre's great strength was insulating the team from the idiocy of the owner (and the media, but the media was often fed by the owner). This strength, of course, wouldn't be necessary if ownership was more sane. It's only a strength, basically, because Steinbrenner is/was such a nut. The sons appear to be cut from the same cloth (though some of the things they've been saying are good, the same old attitude of WIN OR ELSE remains).

-Arrian

[Arrian]

And yes, I do think it was ridiculous that Andy Phillips was given free reign at first base while Wilson Betemit wasted away. And Miguel Cairo probably got way too many chances over the years. And Joe did ride certain bullpen arms a little too much. But even these issues are besides the point.

To be fair to Torre, Betemit played. Philips... for a while was the best option (which is an indictment of Cashman, not Torre). Then ManCaveItch came off the DL and did nothing but hit (until the playoffs, whereupon he reverted to true form). One could certainly question not playing Giambi more, but Giambi was awful when he played.

Cairo was inexplicable, and a fault of Torre's - he has a deep and abiding love of backup players who cannot hit. And the bullpen thing... partly a function of lacking good options, but he's not a good BP manager.

The key point in that article is that the manager needs to be on the same page as the FO, like Francona seems to be with Epstein & pals.

-Arrian