Torre declines 1-year offer from Yanks

[-Jrabbit]

Linky

Joe Torre out as Yankees manager, rejects offer to return

By RONALD BLUM, AP Baseball Writer
October 18, 2007

NEW YORK (AP) -- Joe Torre rejected a $5 million, one-year contract to return as manager of the New York Yankees on Thursday.

Torre, who had held the job since 1995, made an unannounced trip from New York to the team's spring training complex in Tampa, Fla., accompanied by general manager Brian Cashman and chief operating officer Lonn Trost. Yankees president Randy Levine said Torre turned down the offer during the meeting, which lasted about one hour.

"It is now time for the New York Yankees to move forward," Levine said.

Torre made $7.5 million this year, the final season of a $19.2 million, three-year contract. His new deal would have included substantial bonuses for each round of the playoffs the team reached.

"We felt we needed to go to a performance-based mode," Levine said. "We thought it was very fair. It clearly was at the top of the market, but we respect Joe's decision."

Bench coach Don Mattingly is the leading contender to replace Torre. Yankees broadcaster Joe Girardi, the NL Manager of the Year with Florida in 2006, is another top contender.

Cashman said there will be a full search for a replacement.

Just 10 days ago, the Yankees were bounced out of the first round of the playoffs for the third straight year.

The offer was an insult. Way to go, Joe!

[reismark]

Re: Torre declines 1-year offer from Yanks

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
The offer was an insult. Way to go, Joe!

I'm the Yankee fan (along with Arrian) and I say you're full of ****. The sons look like very shrewd people, because they made the appearance of a pretty fair offer and now they don't have to deal with the stigmata of having kicked Torre out the door like a bad one-night stand.

Consider:

- Even with the cut to his guarantee, Torre still would have been, by far, the highest-paid manager in baseball. (I believe Lou Pinella is next on the list at $3.5 mil per, $1.5 mil less than the Yankees' offer.)

- With the incentives, Torre would have made more than he did the last three seasons. Considering the problem with the Yankees has been translating regular season success to the postseason, having him earn a bit of his paycheck when the games really count is a more-than-fair proposition.

The only potential issue I'd have with this offer is the explicit tying of the vesting of the option year to the Yankees' making the World Series next year - and that's only if that was the only way for Torre to get the option.

Was this designed to get Torre to step aside on his own? Most likely. But then again, if Torre really loved the job as much as he claims he did, the money wouldn't have been as big a deal as it apparantly was.

The trick from here is convincing Rivera, Posada, and Pettitte of that.

[DanS]

Looks to me like a way to save face for everybody. Not that it is in any way important to save face while running a successful ball club, of course.

[-Jrabbit]

Hey, I don't doubt that the new leadership is just chock-full of shrewd people.

But this is just spin control.

Now the Yanks don't have to cop to firing Torre. I'm sure Cashman -- the one who assembles the team -- immediately embraced the idea and has moved to "performance based" compensation.

[SlowwHand]

He escapes from King George!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DanS
Looks to me like a way to save face for everybody. Not that it is in any way important to save face while running a successful ball club, of course.

Yep.

[-Jrabbit]

Re: Re: Torre declines 1-year offer from Yanks

Originally posted by reismark

I'm the Yankee fan (along with Arrian) and I say you're full of ****. The sons look like very shrewd people, because they made the appearance of a pretty fair offer and now they don't have to deal with the stigmata of having kicked Torre out the door like a bad one-night stand.

Of course you think I'm full of it. You're a Yankee fan; you don't have any perspective. I don't expect you to do anything other than blindly support anything Yankee management does. But I would ask you to carefully consider two of your own phrases:
"...look like very shrewd people..."
"...the appearance of a pretty fair offer..."

As you consider your next sizzling riposte, please keep in mind that I'm simply reacting to the news. I don't actually care whether the Yankees keep Torre or not. And I would think even blindly loyal fans can see through the transparent facade of this ploy.

- Even with the cut to his guarantee, Torre still would have been, by far, the highest-paid manager in baseball. (I believe Lou Pinella is next on the list at $3.5 mil per, $1.5 mil less than the Yankees' offer.)

It was the Yankees who set the price. And that was 3 years ago.

- With the incentives, Torre would have made more than he did the last three seasons.

Now you're falling into their trap -- talking about the contract contingencies (thus giving them undeserved credibility) instead of the fact that they're letting Torre go. (Again: I don't care. Just observing.)

Considering the problem with the Yankees has been translating regular season success to the postseason, having him earn a bit of his paycheck when the games really count is a more-than-fair proposition.

While I understand the emotional appeal of this strawman to pennant-starved fans, it's an absurd notion. First, Torre has gotten them to the post-season every freaking year. Second, the manager doesn't strike out with RISP or blow saves. Even in the post-season.

Was this designed to get Torre to step aside on his own? Most likely. But then again, if Torre really loved the job as much as he claims he did, the money wouldn't have been as big a deal as it apparantly was.

I think we all agree, the move was clearly designed to prevent the Yankees from having to make a public decision. The fact that you even consider making it Torre's fault for not accepting this insulting offer is proof enough of that. To me, it just shows the "shrewd" new management team doesn't have the balls to make a clean break of it. IMHO.

The trick from here is convincing Rivera, Posada, and Pettitte of that.

Cashman better not screw up, or he'll have to get another manager fired!

[Arrian]

'Tis as DanS put it: a way for everyone to save some face. Torre comes out looking best, probably, but the front office managed to avoid looking like total jerks.

They made him a decent offer they knew he would refuse.

Ok, that's done then. I wasn't against him coming back, and I fear some of the potential replacements. With the young pitching the Yanks have, thank goodness Dusty is already off the market! I hope the interview process includes lengthy discussions of how to handle young pitchers, how to manage a bullpen, etc. And of course you need a guy who can hold his own with the NY media, which was Torre's great talent. It's a tall order, replacing Torre.

I guess I favor Girardi of the "names" in the hat. I might prefer a no-name guy from inside the organization, though.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

First, Torre has gotten them to the post-season every freaking year.

Well... with that payroll

[-Jrabbit]

First 5 years, he was like a god in NY.
The first few failures after 2000 were easily forgiven.
It was the historic implosion to the Red Sox that created the real discontent.

Funny thing is, it was after that disaster that they gave him the current contract.

[asleepathewheel]

If I were torre, I would be insulted by an incentive laden contract.

Because clearly that was the problem, he needed financial motivations to win another round or two in the playoffs.

Give me a break.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Re: Re: Re: Torre declines 1-year offer from Yanks

Originally posted by -Jrabbit

Of course you think I'm full of it. You're a Yankee fan; you don't have any perspective. I don't expect you to do anything other than blindly support anything Yankee management does.

Cashman better not screw up, or he'll have to get another manager fired!

When King George ran the team, he at least had the balls to be straight up and honest about it. He even had a sense of humor about it, if anyone remembers the old TV commercial with Billy Martin.

[-Jrabbit]

Loved those commercials. I swear, that's where Donald Trump stole his whole "you're fired" routine.

[reismark]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Funny thing is, it was after that disaster that they gave him the current contract.

*Family Feud Buzzer*

Torre actually got that extension before the 2004 season, months before the collapse against the Red Sox. And if he hadn't, while he probably would have gotten a new contract anyway, you can be damn sure it wouldn't have been in the $7.5 mil range.

[Imran Siddiqui]

An interesting take:

http://squawkingbaseball.com/?p=34#more-34

I understand why this is being treated as such a big story. The manager position has been very highly thought of since the start of time, and this particular manager is one of the most respected men in the industry (and not just for winning four World Series titles).

That being said, let’s look at this from an objective point of view. The field manager used to run the entire show, not only filling out the lineup cards, but also acquiring the talent and possibly even playing. But those days are long over. The position is now, more or less, that of a middle manager, bridging the gap between the top level executives and the company’s talent roster.

Joe Torre is no different. Perhaps his managerial tact and calm demeanor really did have a key impact in the Yankees’ playoff success in the late ’90s. But let’s be realistic; he wasn’t nearly as successful with Joel Youngblood and Frank Tavares as he was with Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter.

And no, I’m not on the bandwagon of misinformed critics who blame Joe for the Yankees’ “failures” the last seven seasons. Anybody who takes ten minutes out of their day to apply some probability models to the MLB postseason knows that playoff success is mostly driven by chance.

And yes, I do think it was ridiculous that Andy Phillips was given free reign at first base while Wilson Betemit wasted away. And Miguel Cairo probably got way too many chances over the years. And Joe did ride certain bullpen arms a little too much. But even these issues are besides the point.

In the end, the most important people in any baseball organization are the players on the field, and the men upstairs who put them there. The field manager’s primary duty at this point is to carry out the objectives of the front office. Whether Joe Torre did this or not, I’m really not sure. But I am pretty certain that Joe’s $7.5 million salary this season was higher than any other non-playing, non-Steinbrenner Yankee employee. No matter the resources of the team involved, this is a gross inefficiency.

So where should the Yankees turn next? Tough to say. Could Don Mattingly or Joe Girardi really be a Terry Francona-type, keeping control of the clubhouse while not ruffling anyone’s feathers and dutifully staying in sync with his superiors? Girardi almost certainly doesn’t fit this mold, and we really don’t know enough about Mattingly yet.

The problem isn’t really with the people at hand, but instead the public perception of the manager’s role. A manager may feel that he is the boss, since that is what is expected of him by the media and even the players. But as we’ve discussed, this really isn’t true anymore.

I’m often asked who my manager would be if I was running a team somewhere, assuming Manny Acta and Francona weren’t available. It’s a very tough question, and to this second I still don’t have an answer.

(When asked, I inevitably settle on my dad. He is a brilliant investor and knows as much about business as, say, Ted Williams knew about hitting. But even more importantly, I know he would listen to me.)

As far as Torre, maybe the Yankees didn’t handle it perfectly. But in the end, it was the right move. We’ll see what their next one is.