AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 07/08: III Revenge of the Undrafted

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Ah, spoken like someone who doesn't understand what it takes to be a great goalie.

I love the bit about you can tell Harding's reaction time is better than Backstrom's.

Oh and your comment about right-handed catcher, a classic.

And the guy you say doesn't have what it takes to be starter, has a great record in 40 games last year, two SO in four games this year. Whether he'll become a legendary goalie is too early to say, but he's doing all the right things right now.

Yup, the guy you called a risky pick is proving a smart choice.

And look at this. Sweet vindication.

You seem to be willing to dismiss my opinion (that Harding has more potential than Backstrom, among other things) as someone who doesn't understand the sport. BTW, are you aware that someone who starts 40 games is not a "starter" in an 82 game season?

First thing I looked at to back me up, TSN.ca's outlook:
Harding:

Assets Has an excellent frame and starting goaltender potential. Takes full advantage of his right catching glove to fool shooters not used to him.
Flaws Must add more weight in order to develop into a legitimate NHL starting goalkeeper. Needs to continue making adjustments to pro shooters.
Career potential No. 1 goaltender

Backstrom:

Assets Owns a wealth of high-level experience from his days in the Finnish SM-Liiga, and has represented his country in International events. Is cool under pressure.
Flaws Must adapt to the quickness of the NHL game, because he's a little slow in terms of movement and reaction time by big-league standards.
Career potential No. 2 goaltender

If you're going to dismiss my comments without any real rebuttal, you have to actually have something to stand on. It seems my opinion is shared by more than one other person who knows what he's talking about. I suggest you actually watch both goaltenders, as I have, before you continue to embarrass yourself.

To be honest, it's really obvious all you looked at was Backstrom's stats last year and picked him up without understanding the platoon situation in Minnesota and without understanding that the future goalie for Minnesota is Harding -- Backstrom is an interim goalie for the franchise until Harding can take the full load of an NHL season. He'll be getting a lot of starts -- at the expense of Backstrom.

Thus the "risk". Which cannot be denied.

[Tingkai]

Pay attention. My comment was about how your "balanced" team has a 0-2-0 record on +/-, no different from my team, which you criticized.

That's one of the reasons why you're losing, not just because your poor decision to draft Mason when you did.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Pay attention. My comment was about how your "balanced" team has a 0-2-0 record on +/-, no different from my team, which you criticized.

It is when I was close on a bad week and you were not.

That's one of the reasons why you're losing, not just because your poor decision to draft Mason when you did.

You think it was a poor decision to draft Mason when I did? What? Do you even remember where I drafted him? He was a steal at the time.

You're the one that drafted a goaltender in a platoon as the first choice in the 2nd round.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
A 'tender with a slower reaction time will have it go in. From what I have seen, Harding has the better reaction times.

Are you seriously trying to tell us that you can tell the difference in reaction time on a glove save between Harding and Backstrom.

Do you really believe that?

Seriously?

Originally posted by Asher
The guy I called risky is going to sit on the bench more than any other "#1 goalie". You used it early in the 2nd round, which is basically the same as drafting someone who will only play half the games. That's what you're risking.

It's risky, any way you want to spin it. Again, Backstrom is good, but he's not going to be a workhorse like Brodeur, Luongo, and Kiprusoff...starts matter in fantasy leagues.

Dude, look at the draft list. Brodeur, Luongo and Kippersoft were taken in the first round.

Yeah, I would have loved to have the option of picking Brodeur or Luongo, but given the choices that were left, Backstrom was the smart choice. His 2 SO are proof of that.

And the guy you claim is going to play half the games will probably play 50+ games this year and win 35+ games. He's playing on a defence-first team with talent on the front-end.

And if starts matter so much, and Backstrom was not a good pick, then how come I'm 5-0-1 on goalie stats.

Meanwhile, you're 2-3-1.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
First thing I looked at to back me up, TSN.ca's outlook:
Harding

Ah, I knew it. You were basing your comments on something you read, rather than your knowledge of the game.

Oh, and that TSN list, the same list that is on the Toronto Star Web site, is written by sports writers in Toronto, you know, the guys you claim don't know nothin bout hockey.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Yes, you also claimed you drafted a "balanced" team. Funny how your record for +/- is the same as mine: 0-2-0.

Oh, and your strategy contains a fatal error which is way you have a losing record, and I don't.

After only two weeks I wouldn't get too excited about much of anything-- Crosby has not produced yet and pretty much anyone would predict that he will produce BIG(with huge implications for plus/minus)

I wouldn't go talking about anyone's fatal errors yet

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Ah, I knew it. You were basing your comments on something you read, rather than your knowledge of the game.

err wouldn't knowledge come fromreading and learning as well as direct observation of the game?


Oh and on Harding v Backstrom, we are pitting two guys with very limited NHL experience against each other-- determinations are premature IMHO

But if I had to pick one for my team-- my gut would go with Harding- and Tingkai, I won't try to justify it . . its based mainly on my in-person observation of the two-- there's just something about Harding I like better

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai



And if starts matter so much, and Backstrom was not a good pick, then how come I'm 5-0-1 on goalie stats.

Meanwhile, you're 2-3-1.

Well Asher's 2-3-1 was mainly because Mason sucked this week

AS for your 5-0-1 its because Backstrom was great-- I don't fault the pick at all-- But I am also 5-0-1 mainly on the strength of an after-draft pick up--

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Are you seriously trying to tell us that you can tell the difference in reaction time on a glove save between Harding and Backstrom.

Do you really believe that?

Seriously?

I don't know how bad your eyes are, but I can -- over a reasonable period of games -- tell when one goalie is quicker than another with the snapping of the gloves.

Dude, look at the draft list. Brodeur, Luongo and Kippersoft were taken in the first round.

Yeah, I would have loved to have the option of picking Brodeur or Luongo, but given the choices that were left, Backstrom was the smart choice. His 2 SO are proof of that.

And the guy you claim is going to play half the games will probably play 50+ games this year and win 35+ games. He's playing on a defence-first team with talent on the front-end.

As I've said, I drafted Backstrom myself. He wouldn't have been my choice at the tail end of the 1st round of start of the 2nd, but that's your call. Starts matter more than stats when your goalie warms the bench for a large amount of time. I think it's risky drafting platoon goalies in the first 3 rounds.

And if starts matter so much, and Backstrom was not a good pick, then how come I'm 5-0-1 on goalie stats.

Meanwhile, you're 2-3-1.

You got a goalie picked well before I did. I didn't get my first goalie to the last pick in the 2nd round/1st in the 3rd.

That said, I'm doing better in this league than I'm in the league where I drafted Brodeur (0-6-0), so I wouldn't draw any goalie performance conclusions yet.

All I'm saying is drafting a goaltender you know will be warming the bench for 35 games or more is risky in the first pick of the 2nd round. I would think that was a given, but apparently not.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Ah, I knew it. You were basing your comments on something you read, rather than your knowledge of the game.

No, I looked it up after to back me up. Look at the discussions at the hockeyfuture boards as well. The bandwagon is definitely on Harding as well.

I think TSN is selling Backstrom short. As I've said, I think he's a 1A goalie not a 2 goalie. He'd work well in a platoon system, but I'm not convinced he can handle the pressure nor workload of the number one starter. For one, his international play sucks. For two, his reaction time is noticably slow (to me -- apparently yours is just as slow, if you can't tell) which would be easier for shooters to adapt to over time. I think his stats will deteriorate over the remainder of the season, while staying quite good.

Oh, and that TSN list, the same list that is on the Toronto Star Web site, is written by sports writers in Toronto, you know, the guys you claim don't know nothin bout hockey.

Do you do anything but throw out baseless claims? I didn't know Scott Cullen -- who last I checked did the TSN rankings -- was a torstar writer.

You must be thinking of the ever-retarded Damien Cox, who certainly does not do the TSN outlooks.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
You think it was a poor decision to draft Mason when I did? What? Do you even remember where I drafted him? He was a steal at the time.

You took him in the fourth round. That wasn't a steal.

Kontiki might have taken, although I suspect he would have taken Biron any ways. No one else took a goalie until 8th round. So definitely not a steal.

Mason doesn't have the support in front that he had last year.

And the guy you call a steal is pretty much the same as my 8th round pick, which early in this season, was not a great pick.

The smart choice in the 4th or 8th round was Legace. Guy was right in taking him, although I have no idea why he dropped him, but I do thank him very much.

Then there's the Bulin wall. Yeah, Chicago sucked last year, but he was pretty decent and the team looks better this year. A toss-up over Mason, and same with Huet, Kolzig and Budaj. The difference is that you took Mason in the fourth round, the other goalies went in the eight round.


And by taking Mason, you lost the chance to take a your boy Phaneuf.

Still think Mason was a steal?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher
I think it's risky drafting platoon goalies in the first 3 rounds.


You got a goalie picked well before I did. I didn't get my first goalie to the last pick in the 2nd round/1st in the 3rd.

Uh-oh-- I picked Emery in the 3rd round-- I probably wouldn't have the Asher seal of approval for that one either

[Asher]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Tingkai
You took him in the fourth round. That wasn't a steal.

Kontiki might have taken, although I suspect he would have taken Biron any ways. No one else took a goalie until 8th round. So definitely not a steal.

Mason doesn't have the support in front that he had last year.

And the guy you call a steal is pretty much the same as my 8th round pick, which early in this season, was not a great pick.

The smart choice in the 4th or 8th round was Legace. Guy was right in taking him, although I have no idea why he dropped him, but I do thank him very much.

Then there's the Bulin wall. Yeah, Chicago sucked last year, but he was pretty decent and the team looks better this year. A toss-up over Mason, and same with Huet, Kolzig and Budaj. The difference is that you took Mason in the fourth round, the other goalies went in the eight round.

And by taking Mason, you lost the chance to take a your boy Phaneuf.

Still think Mason was a steal?

Absolutely.

While I love Phaneuf, the importance of defensemen in hockey pools is not what it is in the real world.

You seem to think Mason is terrible or incapable of playing well. I point you to the first week of his play of this season.

I honestly think the main difference between you and me, Tingkai, is I watch a hell of a lot more hockey than you do. You may feel smug in picking Khabilbulin or Legace, but I've endured watching MANY of their games last season and I know better.

Mason's a great goaltender, and the reason I picked two goaltenders in succession (before someone else drafted again) is because I don't have the luxury of being able to draft a guarantee-top 10 goaltender like virtually everyone else. I needed to have two strong goaltenders to make up for that, and I think Fluery will get me a lot of wins in Pittsburgh when they start rolling and Mason will get me good sv%/SHO in Nashville when they start rolling.

This is still very early in the season, and a lot of players haven't yet showed up every game. Hell, the entire Leafs team sits out most of their games still.

If you'd ask if I'd prefer Fluery/Mason to Backstrom/Legace, the answer is "hell yes".

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Flubber
err wouldn't knowledge come fromreading and learning as well as direct observation of the game?

The difference is that Asher was just quoting the TSN Web site.

Originally posted by Flubber
Oh and on Harding v Backstrom, we are pitting two guys with very limited NHL experience against each other-- determinations are premature IMHO

But if I had to pick one for my team-- my gut would go with Harding

Backstrom has played enough games +40 to give us some idea of how he will handle the NHL.

With Harding, he hasn't played enough games to say anything. He could become a great goalie, or maybe not. Less than 10 games is not enough to judge him yet.

I think Harding has potential, but comparing him against Backstrom, I'd go with the guy who has more games under his belt and who has produced incredible results.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Flubber


Uh-oh-- I picked Emery in the 3rd round-- I probably wouldn't have the Asher seal of approval for that one either

Well, in your defense no one saw Gerber's awesomeness coming. But no, I've never liked Emery and I wouldn't have picked him there either.