AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 07/08: III Revenge of the Undrafted

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The difference is that Asher was just quoting the TSN Web site.

I quoted it after, Tingkai. Something to back it up because you dismissed it as ridiculous offhand. Then I find a source which mostly corroborates my opinion (with differences), and now you try to avoid the issue by saying all I do is copy/paste my opinions. Enough backpedaling. Is this one of those situations where everybody is ridiculous but you, the guy who watches 2-3 games last season?

Backstrom has played enough games +40 to give us some idea of how he will handle the NHL.

It's very different to play 40 games in a season and play 70.

I think Harding has potential, but comparing him against Backstrom, I'd go with the guy who has more games under his belt and who has produced incredible results.

That's reasonable. But I don't think you were aware of Harding or how good he was when you chose to draft Backstrom when you did. Yes, his stats are good but there's a lot of nights where he won't give you anything but a benchwarmer.

While Backstrom has definitely been great, in the game so far (and the games last season), Harding has been better. At what point do they go with the guy giving better than great? It's risky. Is all I'm saying.

I don't see how you can deny the observation that it's a risky pick.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
I honestly think the main difference between you and me, Tingkai, is I watch a hell of a lot more hockey than you do.

You missed my message about Center Ice Online being available in Hong Kong.

And when I watch a game, I understand what I'm watching, unlike...



And thank the NHL gods that I can watch games now.

After playing years as a goalie and a d-man, I've been moved up to centre, which means I've got a lot of bad habits to breaks and new stuff to learn.

Anyone play centre here?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai


You took him in the fourth round. That wasn't a steal.

Kontiki might have taken, although I suspect he would have taken Biron any ways. No one else took a goalie until 8th round. So definitely not a steal.

Drafts have their own flow so who knows where Mason would have gone had Asher not taken him. On performance so far, definitely not a steal-- But its a long season

Originally posted by Tingkai




Mason doesn't have the support in front that he had last year.

very true. Nashville is not looking very good these days

Originally posted by Tingkai


And the guy you call a steal is pretty much the same as my 8th round pick, which early in this season, was not a great pick.

The smart choice in the 4th or 8th round was Legace. Guy was right in taking him, although I have no idea why he dropped him, but I do thank him very much.

Well as it turned out so far , the best pick in either the 4th or 8th round would have been Gerber but we were all working on the same reports at the time which had not yet indicated that Emery could not start the season

But my example highlights the point I think Asher is trying to make. If a given goalie has a given value to a poolie, that value goes up if he has a weak backup that won't play much and goes down if the goalie has a superior backup that is heralded as a future star. I think anyone could agree with that part.

Originally posted by Tingkai




Then there's the Bulin wall. Yeah, Chicago sucked last year, but he was pretty decent and the team looks better this year. A toss-up over Mason, and same with Huet, Kolzig and Budaj. The difference is that you took Mason in the fourth round, the other goalies went in the eight round.

I confess to being with Tingkai on this one-- I had Mason in that pool of goalies that did go in the 8th round. I simply thought that his team would be weaker and result in fewer wins. I didn't really expect this early implosion,nor do I really expect it to continue.

BUt I won't criticize Asher's Mason pick too much when my Emery pick is still sidelined --(although he apparently stopped 46 of 48 shots in his AHL start)-- Glass houses- stones etc

While I enjoy the banter , I can't criticize others picks too harshly when in my own mind I am being pretty harsh in my own mind on some of my own picks-- IIRC I only have one player still on my team from my last 4 draft picks. and thats Bertuzzi who may be injured.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

I quoted it after, Tingkai.

Indeed you did "quote" it after.

And what a coincidence.

When I asked you to explain why you thought Harding was a better goalie, your reasons were exactly the same as the forecaster. Exactly the same, including the forecaster's stupid comment about right-handed goalies.

What a coincidence.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai



You missed my message about Center Ice Online being available in Hong Kong.

I wasn't aware it came with a time travel features so you could watch last year's games.

Anyone play centre here?

I note the record time it takes you to start using the fact that you play rec league hockey as a trump card for reasoned responses relying on observation.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai

Indeed you did "quote" it after.

And what a coincidence.

When I asked you to explain why you thought Harding was a better goalie, your reasons were exactly the same as the forecaster. Exactly the same, including the forecaster's stupid comment about right-handed goalies.

What a coincidence.

They aren't the same, but many of the very basic observations remain.

Maybe the fact that they're rather basic observations explains why more than one person can share the same opinion?

Here I go back to my suggestion to you to actually watch the games.

I don't know why you find it outlandish that reaction speed is an observable trait of great goalies. I also don't know why you find it outlandish that when a goalie catches with his right hand it can throw off the skater -- just like lefty pitchers in Baseball.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher

Well, in your defense no one saw Gerber's awesomeness coming. But no, I've never liked Emery and I wouldn't have picked him there either.

On Emery-- I don't love him a lot and he does get a good sv %. But I do think that Ottawa has an awesome team and knew that Emery would be good for a lot of wins ( presuming all along that he would be the starter since Gerber wasn't that good last year)

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai



After playing years as a goalie and a d-man, I've been moved up to centre, which means I've got a lot of bad habits to breaks and new stuff to learn.

Anyone play centre here?

Sorry -- life-long d-man here-- I have played on the wing sometimes and its a different world when you can't see ALL the players. I KNOW as a winger what I should do and where I should be but my instincts are all as a defenceman

[Tingkai]

And Asher, before I sign off for the night, I've said it before and I'll say it again in all seriousness, you got to start playing hockey.

I'm playing center this year. It's not easy. I'm used to playing D or goalie.

So playing centre forces me to change the way I look at the game. I've got to think like a centreman now.

And yeah, I've got some basic concepts, but I don't know enough about what a center should be doing.

First game of the year was tonight, and I wasn't bad, but played too defensively and didn't do my job.

The point I keep trying to tell you is that you obviously love the game, so go out an play. You won't regret it.

And with that, good night.

[Asher]

I can't play hockey for reasons I will not discuss here, but I will thank you to stop using the fact that you physically play it means you know more than a well-educated, observant, analytical observer by default. That "trump card" seems to come up every time you back yourself into a corner.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Flubber



Sorry -- life-long d-man here-- I have played on the wing sometimes and its a different world when you can't see ALL the players. I KNOW as a winger what I should do and where I should be but my instincts are all as a defenceman

Exactly my problem.

On a couple of shifts, I went in to forecheck, but now I'm thinking that was a mistake.

Who should do the forecheck? Center or winger. I'm kind of thinking that the wing should do it while the center takes a defensive position.

But I'm guessing here. I don't know.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai

Backstrom has played enough games +40 to give us some idea of how he will handle the NHL.

With Harding, he hasn't played enough games to say anything. He could become a great goalie, or maybe not. Less than 10 games is not enough to judge him yet.

I think Harding has potential, but comparing him against Backstrom, I'd go with the guy who has more games under his belt and who has produced incredible results.

Thats very reasonable and reasoned approach-- and one with which Asher agreed. So you both like Backstrom a lot, agreed??

Now Ashers only reservation is that Backstrom has such a superlative backup that Backstrom may not play nearly as many games as his first-string contemporaries and this may hurt his ability to win categories. Surely no one can dispute that .


Then we are only left with the call of whether, knowing all this, backstrom is a good call at draft pick 2.1. To me its a subjective call which people could debate for 100 more posts

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
I can't play hockey for reasons I will not discuss here, but I will thank you to stop using the fact that you physically play it means you know more than a well-educated, observant, analytical observer by default. That "trump card" seems to come up every time you back yourself into a corner.

Asher, I didn't mean to use it as a trump card, OK, not this time.

I really think you would love playing the game.

And my theory is if you can ski, and I know you can ski, then you can skate. And if watch the game, you have a good idea of what to do on the ice so you can play hockey.

And you don't have to be good to love the game.

I suck compared to a lot of players here, but I still love playing.

My only regret is that I stopped playing when I was a teenager and didn't start playing again until my 30s. I wasted a lot of good years.

So seriously, all trash talking aside, when I say you should play the game, I'm saying it cause I think you would enjoy it.

Now, when I say you don't understand the game cause you don't play...

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Exactly my problem.

On a couple of shifts, I went in to forecheck, but now I'm thinking that was a mistake.

Who should do the forecheck? Center or winger. I'm kind of thinking that the wing should do it while the center takes a defensive position.

But I'm guessing here. I don't know.

Depends on the coach's system-- IN an agressive 2-1-2 The winger is supposed to forecheck hard while the centre follows in a little behind -- If the forechecker is somewhat successful, the centre is in as well but is prepared to peel off if the opposing defense clears the zone

less agressive is the probably more common 1-2-2-- I have seen coach's use wingers or centres as the main forechecker-- more commonly the winger since it is typically the centreman's job to pick up the opposing team's player inn the high slot-- One team I played for did a very defensive system with a centre forecheck and with a very strict backchecking assignment for the wingers. Usually the opposing centre would come in alone on two d-men that could just clobber him. As a d-man it was a lot of fun to be able to really tee off on guys

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
And my theory is if you can ski, and I know you can ski, then you can skate. And if watch the game, you have a good idea of what to do on the ice so you can play hockey.

I can't ski, but I can skate (but haven't for years). But I can't play hockey for many reasons, not the least of which is I'm not supposed to due to my ankle.