AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 07/08: III Revenge of the Undrafted

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Here's a classic statement of someone who doesn't understand the game.

No one expects a d-man to score a point a game.

Except you, who said of a 0.7 point per game pace:

He's supposed to be the QB for the PP and in the past he has done that job extremely well, except for last year.

Like a 0.7 points per game pace was bad or an exception (eg, you expect more?)

Most people realize that the points produced by a d-man on the pp does not count for the =/- which is while +/- does not reflect the true value of a d-man.

Most people realize that my statement was not limited to powerplay points only. It just says for all the goals this man scores, he's on the ice for an awful lot the other team scores...and creates the opportunity for a great many of those.

And anyone who writes off Sundin for being old ignores the fact that he has produces +70 points for 10 season and has 10 points in 5 games this season.

I just called him a first-line player, and you call that writing him off? I'm sorry, Tingkai, but 37 year old hockey players have greatly diminished values when concerning trades. That's the point I was making, and I'll thank you for not intentionally ignoring that to make a condescending swipe in the future.

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

It really is, isn't it.

[Ninot]

I agree with Tingkai for a lot of that

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ninot
I agree with Tingkai for a lot of that

Then that's truly disappointing, considering he contradicts himself. I especially love how he finds a 0.7 point per game pace an exception for McCabe (in a bad way) but then says "no one expects a point per game out of defencemen".

The other parts of his post rely on ignoring the even strength game. He doesn't even look at it. I guess Tingkai thinks McCabe only plays on the powerplay.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Asher

Then that's truly disappointing, considering he contradicts himself. I especially love how he finds a 0.7 point per game pace an exception for McCabe (in a bad way) but then says "no one expects a point per game out of defencemen".

The other parts of his post rely on ignoring the even strength game. He doesn't even look at it. I guess Tingkai thinks McCabe only plays on the powerplay.

But let's play his game and evaluate McCabe's PowerPlay time against a mere newbie, like Dion Phaneuf:

Last season:
McCabe: 11 ppg 23 ppa in 82 games
Phaneuf: 13 ppg 18 ppa in 79 games

I'm not convinced McCabe is all that special on the powerplay either. Tingkai speaks of his powerplay game as a huge differencemaker.

BTW, Tingkai, Sundin has 8 points in 5 games, not 10. Still very good, of course. But his value as tradebait isn't as high as it once was, due to his age.

[Ninot]

lol, I like that you quoted yourself to further the point.

Maybe I just got used to having a guy like Souray on my team. Don't get me wrong, I'd never want McCabe. Personally though, I consider anything over 0.5 points per game for a defenseman to be quite good.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ninot
lol, I like that you quoted yourself to further the point.

Maybe I just got used to having a guy like Souray on my team. Don't get me wrong, I'd never want McCabe. Personally though, I consider anything over 0.5 points per game for a defenseman to be quite good.

Of course it is, I've never said otherwise.

It's good to have powerplay specialists on your team. The problem is when you rely on them heavily for even strength play (as a top pairing guy) when his defensive skills are fairly weak.

McCabe is less one-dimensional than Souray, but he's still fairly one-dimensional. His scoring rate is good, even in his off years, but an elite defenseman needs to do a lot more than score goals.

I consider Phaneuf to be the superior defenseman to McCabe, even now. Phaneuf is much more well-rounded.

[Ninot]

Of course. You'd need to be crazy not to want Phaneuf on your team. To even make the comparison is unfair to Phaneuf

[Asher]

I just wish Phaneuf got more opportunities to plaster McCabe with his open ice hits.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai




And yes, he screws up, but he's on a team where every screw up gets noticed. Souray is a far worse defencemen, but nobody here is talking about making him a forward. Gonchar ain't great defensively, and Phanuef routinely screws up (which can be expected as his young age) but god knows the idiots in the Calgary press would never criticize him.

Phaneuf is very likely to become a Pronger or Lidstrom type defenceman-- the guy that scores points but who is also your shut-down guy against the opponents top line. He is not in their class yet, and he may never get as good as them, but I do see the potential

I have only seen him in two games this season and in both he was very very good defensively-- He was winning battles in the corners and excellent against the rush-- I only listened to the game against Detroit and the announcers were saying he was much less good

Originally posted by Tingkai




Is McCabe the best d-man in the league, definitely not. Is he earning his money, not at this point. Is he a top-10 d-man, yes.

McCabe might be a top 10 defense pointgetter or a top 10 dman for a poolie but there are absolutely more than 10 d-men that I would choose ahead of him on which to base a team -- all personal opinion of course

[Flubber]

Tonight I am hoping that the Flames win 8-7 over Dallas (ya thats gonna happen)-- My desire for a Flames win overrides my dislike for a goalie win for the Storm but I still wouldn't mind Kipper giving up a few

I am hoping for a breakout game from Matthew Lomabardi with 2 PPG while Tanguay has 4PPA and a plus 3 besides- I mean how long can the Flames suck ??

[snoopy369]

The month of October?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by snoopy369
The month of October?

While that was the pattern for the last two years, it does not HAVE to be that way...

I mean I am a fan of the Flames and therefore a bit biased-- I want to think they are good. But I can't blithely accept that this year will be like the other years-- I mean a losing October followed by a long home winning streak is NOT inevitable

[Flubber]

hmmm-- Friday night and no banter . . . Is everyone out doing stuff?

[Asher]

Flames win! On the road! Against a good team!

Praise jesus.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher
Flames win! On the road! Against a good team!

Praise jesus.

Oh and


LOMBARDI !!!!!!!!

which team is he on anyway