AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 07/08: III Revenge of the Undrafted

[Asher]

Originally posted by Flubber
I did not agree that you shouldn't "critique the pick"-- Thats half the fun-- but I do see some merit in what snoopy is saying about your manner. Personally I brush it off and respond to content. But if someone else wants to take issue with your style, I don't see why they should not do so

If they want to discuss the style of my writing, they can do it elsewhere than in an NHL thread. The guy's a moderator in a forum, he knows that too.

It's particularly puzzling given the context. Nothing I said that he responded to could even be considered rude -- unless you consider me calling picking Backstrom so early "silly" rude...it just sort of broadsided me with an off-topic attack of character, which to me is a personal attack (I've been banned for much less, I know what they consider personal attacks around here).

[Flubber]

Originally posted by snoopy369
To be fair, i'm not feeling well today and would not normally have posted that last paragraph. Not because I don't believe it, but because that sort of comment is not possible to be received well by the poster (and Asher is not the only one this applies to; it applies to myself sometimes certainly, and many others). The difference between "my opinion is this" and "your opinion is wrong" is a very, very fine line, and which opinion you agree with often determines which side of the line you think it is on.

The constantly nagging Tingkai and NYE however is still annoying

I don't know how many times at work I start typing the honest but cutting email but then start over with something softer .


I definitely agree that it is possible to send the same content in less abrasive and confrontational ways.

Oh and the fact that Asher mainly goes at Tingkai and NYE is because he respects the hockey knowledge of the rest of us so very very much

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369
To be fair, i'm not feeling well today and would not normally have posted that last paragraph. Not because I don't believe it, but because that sort of comment is not possible to be received well by the poster (and Asher is not the only one this applies to; it applies to myself sometimes certainly, and many others). The difference between "my opinion is this" and "your opinion is wrong" is a very, very fine line, and which opinion you agree with often determines which side of the line you think it is on.

The constantly nagging Tingkai and NYE however is still annoying

Then you should feel very lucky I know enough not to post what I think of you right now. "Haughty" is very kind. I don't appreciate your attempts to dictate how people here talk hockey. Especially considering nothing I was saying was close to being out of line.

I find it quite annoying when people take the high-and-mighty tone, and even more when it's not even applicable given the context. The most annoying aspect of this thread wasn't the discussion on Backstrom (which was on topic, relevant, and even interesting and informative), but your interjection that suddenly decided this was a thread to critique character and posting styles. It is not.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by Flubber



I admit my comment was largely tongue in cheek since McCabe, despite his flaws was still an Olympian for Canada, which means some held his skills as defenseman in high regard

Wasn't that the same team that left off Crosby, Staal and Spezza?

Team Canada wouldn't know talent unless it was making 6 million a year And even then, they're spotty.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Flubber
Oh and the Leafs exhibited their streakiness again last night in a big way. That was quite a blowout of the Islanders.

Will the Leafs make the playoffs this year? I have doubts

I do too. Scoring eight goals on a back-up goalie is nothing to write home about.

The problem with the Leafs this year is they're not working as a team, and more importantly, they haven't got the talent to compete at the top level and JFJ is to blame for that.

The best thing the Leafs could do is a fire sale like Philly did last year, and Washington did years ago.

I like Sundin, McCabe and Kaberle, but if I wouldn't mind trading them for some decent draft picks.

The problem is JFJ has signed so many bad contracts that the Leafs are screwed. I mean, who the hell would take Kubina?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ninot


Wasn't that the same team that left off Crosby, Staal and Spezza?

That would be the one-- The one that I like to refer to as "yesterday's heroes"

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The best thing the Leafs could do is a fire sale like Philly did last year, and Washington did years ago.

I like Sundin, McCabe and Kaberle, but if I wouldn't mind trading them for some decent draft picks.

The problem is JFJ has signed so many bad contracts that the Leafs are screwed. I mean, who the hell would take Kubina?

Or McCabe (and he can't be traded, remember...or sent down to the minors).

The Leafs can't firesale because there aren't really any assets. Sundin may've been valuable 3-4 years ago, but he's too old now to warrant a lot in return.

Kaberle is the only d-man I like in Toronto.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Flubber


That would be the one-- The one that I like to refer to as "yesterday's heroes"

What a gongshow that was.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Flubber
McCabes skills may be somewhat ill-suited for a forward role, but when you have an offensive defenseman with defensive shortcomings, it could be something to think about. NOte I never said they should do it-- I just wondered if it had ever been considered

I don't think McCabe is the greatest defensive defenceman, but that's not why he gets paid the big bucks. He's supposed to be the QB for the PP and in the past he has done that job extremely well, except for last year. If he can get back on track this year great, otherwise he is overpaid.

And yes, he screws up, but he's on a team where every screw up gets noticed. Souray is a far worse defencemen, but nobody here is talking about making him a forward. Gonchar ain't great defensively, and Phanuef routinely screws up (which can be expected as his young age) but god knows the idiots in the Calgary press would never criticize him.

Is McCabe the best d-man in the league, definitely not. Is he earning his money, not at this point. Is he a top-10 d-man, yes.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
The Leafs can't firesale because there aren't really any assets.

That's just so stupid it doesn't deserve a real response.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
And yes, he screws up, but he's on a team where every screw up gets noticed. Souray is a far worse defencemen, but nobody here is talking about making him a forward. Gonchar ain't great defensively, and Phanuef routinely screws up (which can be expected as his young age) but god knows the idiots in the Calgary press would never criticize him.

Phaneuf has been criticized, but not very heavily. Why? Well, let's see -- he's exceptionally young for a defenseman and he makes 900,000 dollars. There's really not a whole lot of room to criticize.

Calgary fans & press, unlike Toronto fans & press, aren't bandwagon-jumping children that scream at the top of their lungs the second someone makes a mistake. Why do you think your goalies all suck in Toronto these days? That goes for everything. Your own fans boo your own players, your own press is writing obituaries in early October for the team.

I don't think a Toronto fan (and former member of the press) is in ANY position to dictate what the press and fan should or should not be doing. Toronto is an example of what not to do.

Is McCabe the best d-man in the league, definitely not. Is he earning his money, not at this point. Is he a top-10 d-man, yes.

In what way? I can think of 20 or 30 or 60 defensemen I'd rather have on my team than McCabe for, you know, defense.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai


That's just so stupid it doesn't deserve a real response.

Please outline the assets you think could be dangled to other teams for any meaningful return. I'm genuinely curious. The Leafs have precisely one first-line quality player: Mats Sundin, and he's gettin' old.

Their defense corp is perhaps the worst in the league, while simultaneously being the highest paid.

The goalie tandem has a combined sv% of about 87% between the two of them.

Who will give up a real asset for any of that? And what assets?

[Asher]

Also:

I don't think McCabe is the greatest defensive defenceman, but that's not why he gets paid the big bucks. He's supposed to be the QB for the PP and in the past he has done that job extremely well, except for last year.

Is last year really the exception? Or was it the one real good year that was the exception?

00-01: 0.36 points per game
01-02: 0.53 points per game
02-03: 0.32 points per game
03-04: 0.71 points per game
05-06: 0.93 points per game
06-07: 0.69 points per game

Now, it's clear to me that last year wasn't the exception. 05-06 was the exception. In fact, he was above average for his career last season, and you act like it was an exception in terms of it being a disappointment.

It's time to wake up -- McCabe had one outstanding year for points production (and still ended up a minus player).

[snoopy369]

If my fantasy team is going to do well, hopefully someone with a good LW and RW that needs a good, aging C... (to the post above the one above this one)

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
It's time to wake up -- McCabe had one outstanding year for points production (and still ended up a minus player).

Here's a classic statement of someone who doesn't understand the game.

No one expects a d-man to score a point a game.

Most people realize that the points produced by a d-man on the pp does not count for the =/- which is while +/- does not reflect the true value of a d-man.

And anyone who writes off Sundin for being old ignores the fact that he has produces +70 points for 10 season and has 10 points in 5 games this season.

Simply put Asher, you are definitely good for a laugh.




Like shooting fish in a barrel.