Poly Football League II

[Berzerker]

we played with 3 def players last year so we can go with that again unless a majority wants team def. I'm easy, but I'll vote for 3 individual def players. A flex position is fine RB/WR by me too

QB
RB
RB
WR
WR
RB/WR
TE
K

DEF
DEF
DEF

with 7 bench spots? That would give us 18 rounds

passing 1pt/25 yds
comp 1 pt
inc -0.5 pt
rushing 1 pt/12 yds ? could be 10 or 15
receiving 1 pt/20 yds
rec comp 1 pt
all TDs 6 pts
INT -2
Fum lost -2
Fum -1
Fum rec 3
safety 3
return yd 1 pt/20 yds
sacks 2
passes defended 1

thats all I can remember now, but if we need to cut out a category we can make fumbles -3. Post if you got ideas or objections.

[SlowwHand]

Same as last year, I do believe.

[Zopperoni]

Some change suggestions and additions:

passing 1pt/35 yds
INT thrown -3
Fum lost -3
Fum 0
safety 2
INT by DEF 3
sacks 1.5
kick block by DEF 3

[-Jrabbit]

If we use 3 IDP players, that's about 25-30 pts/wk. on average. How does that compare with team-based Defense/Special Teams?

I agree that Fumbles should not be penalized (only Fumbles Lost). Cuz if you don't lose possession, it's just a tackle.

Kick Block by DEf only works if we use team defense BTW.

Why not rushing and receiving yardage rates the same? Having them different makes RB evaluation just weird. Same for return yds, for that matter. Just figure out how much to penalize QB passing yardage and be done with it.

If we use IDP, add Tackles = 1.0 solo, assists = 0.5

I kind of like the 3 pt penalty for turnovers, but 2 is OK as well.

[Berzerker]

safety = 3 counts the 2 actual pts and rewards 1 pt for the change of possession, thats gotta be worth more than a fumble or int all things considered.

we can do away with fumbles and just use lost fumbles, but if INTs and Fumbles are -3 then safeties should be worth 3. Not a big deal, not many safeties are scored anyway.

regarding RB and WR, 1 pt/comp gives too much weight to receivers at 1 pt/20 yds rushing and receiving. A good day for both is 100 yds, a RB rushes 20 x for 80 and catches 2 for 20 = 7 pts. A WR gets 100 yds on 5 catches = 10 pts, so giving a pt to RBs for 10-12-15 yds helps even them out.

[-Jrabbit]

I love the assumption that this should or could somehow relate to reality.

I agree that, if a TO is worth 3 pts, a safety should be worth at least that much, arguably more. Frankly, I've never seen TOs at more than 2 pt, but I've only played for 3 yrs.

RB vs WR:
Teams get 200-300 yds passing, but only 100-150 rushing. They use one or two RBs, but all those receiveing yrds are spread among 4-5 receivers, plus TEs and RBs. So a prime RB gets 20+ touches (including some catches), while a good WR is is lucky to get 7 or 8. The fact that RBs get a point for cathing a screen pass for no gain, plus all the extra touches (every one an opportunity to break one) easily compensates. So why make yardage more complicated than it needs to be in the name of "realism"? The is FANTASY football.

Bottom line: TDs will always be where it's at. It's where FF points are scored. A one-yd TD pass to the tight end will also equal the 100-yd, TD-free days from the RB in your example, so why overthink it? We all play by the same rules, so it really makes more sense to keep it simple.

IMHO.

[Berzerker]

I love the assumption that this should or could somehow relate to reality.

followed by Jr's attempt at realism

The problem with your argument is that we dont play team offenses, we pick individual players from different teams. We wont be splitting 300 yds passing up between 4-5 receivers, we'll be playing (hopefully) the top (1-2) receiver in the pecking order. Steve Smith doesn't share 300 yds with Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Terrell Owens LT and Brian Westbrook. He gets the lion share of receiving as do most of our WRs, so a typical WR in FF gets 4 catches for 80 (just a guesstimate, top WRs get maybe 5 for 100) while the typical RB gets 80 yds and maybe 20 receiving.

We've been playing with 10 (Imran), 12 or 15 yds rushing and it hasn't complicated anything and no one has complained. Going to 20 yds for rushing dont bother me much, it just reduces the impact of RBs compared to other positions. But seeing a WR get 3 catches for 40 yds = a RB who gains 100 yds on 20 rushes certainly is fantasy. The RB is borderline dominant in the game, the WR is just there going thru the motions.

[snoopy369]

20 yards rushing is too much. Rushing should be higher scoring than receiving if it's a catches league, 10 ru:20re or thereabouts.

JR, basically it's that you want to balance the WR and the RB reasonably. RB will always be at the top end a much better position, because it's more reliable (star RB has more consistent production than star WR, especially in the TD department).

Having all of the points come from TDs is a VERY BAD IDEA because it's a bit too 'random'; you end up with a fantasy team's players doing really well in RL but not scoring TDs, and another team full of mike alstott types who do nothing but score TDs. You want it to relate a bit to reality, in that a good player IRL is a good fantasy player; I could come up with a system where Rex Grossman is the top QB and it would work fine, particularly in that it would piss off Jaguar. However, it would not be a good system.

Generally it's agreed that rushing and receiving yards, when catches are not counted, should be equal; while if catches are counted, drop half the points or so from rec yards.

It's all up to, do you want to reward guys for catching the ball, or for running far with it, basically. Catches are often considered better because they're again less random; a good WR will generally catch the ball plenty, even if he doesn't run very far with it. Thus good strategy is rewarded more, as opposed to random luck (random 3rd WR having 150 yard day etc.)

Rushing should be 10 or 12, 10 makes more sense to me because, well, it has a zero on the end I guess? I don't think dropping points off of rushing does much, except give the stud RBs even more points [the LTs and such who get tons of TDs to the point that the yardage doesn't matter as much], which is probably not necessary as the stud RBs already have plenty of value. I'd rather see, say, Jamal Lewis get more points relative to LT if possible, because LT is already silly

[snoopy369]

BTW average stat for a top WR: 90 to 100 catches for 1300 yards = 6 catches for 80ish yards. Catch league scoring that's 6 + 4 = 10, noncatch it's 8.

"Normal" WR (average to high 2nd wr on a team): 70 catches for 1000 yards, or a bit less. Per game 4 for 60. 7 points in catch league, 6 in a noncatch league.

"Low" WR (around 25th-30th overall, flex spot at best): 60 catches for 800 yards. Per game, a bit under 4 for 50. 6 in a catch league, 5 in a noncatch league.

Basically that's the difference... not a lot, about 20% more points, but a lot more consistency. A few guys do a lot better (Andre Johnson, ie) and a few guys do a lot worse (Plexico Burress) but not a lot of variation.

Who really benefits are those RBs who get lots of 3-4 yard screen passes. They're scored a bit more realistically, in terms of their value to football; normally they'd get at most 1 or 2 points from say 5 catches for 20 yards, where really they're gaining 3 first downs with those 5 catches, and saving their QB from sacks on the other two. I'd happily give that back 5 or 6 points instead of 1 or 2.

[-Jrabbit]

OK look, the essence of my argument for rushing and receiving yards being the same is this:

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Look around the fantasy websites. Find me one example of a FF analysis or mock draft site that's based on rushing and receiving yards being scored at different rates. It just isn't done. If you think WRs are overvalued, reduce or eliminate points for reception (0.5? 0.75?), or change the swing position to RB3.

Look, I'll play by any rules, but I think this particular twist is just odd and unnecessary.

[Spaced Cowboy]

am I in time to still sign up?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
OK look, the essence of my argument for rushing and receiving yards being the same is this:

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Look around the fantasy websites. Find me one example of a FF analysis or mock draft site that's based on rushing and receiving yards being scored at different rates. It just isn't done. If you think WRs are overvalued, reduce or eliminate points for reception (0.5? 0.75?), or change the swing position to RB3.

Look, I'll play by any rules, but I think this particular twist is just odd and unnecessary.

This scoring system - 10/yd rushing, 20/yd receiving + 1/catch - is a very, very common scoring system. I don't have time to search right now, but any league that uses catches that I've ever seen or been in, and that's a decent number, uses more yds/point for receiving yards than rushing yards. You put the 1pt/catch in there for a reason, and changing that value is very different from changing the yds/point value.

There are also many sites that allow you to set up a custom scoring system and then work from there, including plenty of free ones. When I get home I can send you the link to one I use if you want.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Spaced Cowboy
am I in time to still sign up?

Guynemer
Slowhand
JrRabbit
Berzerker
Jaguar
Koy
Snoopy
Zopperoni
Spaced Cowboy 9

Come on, we need another.

[-Jrabbit]

C'mon, MING!!!!!!

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by snoopy369


This scoring system - 10/yd rushing, 20/yd receiving + 1/catch - is a very, very common scoring system. I don't have time to search right now, but any league that uses catches that I've ever seen or been in, and that's a decent number, uses more yds/point for receiving yards than rushing yards. You put the 1pt/catch in there for a reason, and changing that value is very different from changing the yds/point value.

There are also many sites that allow you to set up a custom scoring system and then work from there, including plenty of free ones. When I get home I can send you the link to one I use if you want.

Look, I'm not trying to play b1tch here. I'm sure y'all have played way more FF than I and have tons of experience in various scoring scenarios. As I've stated repeatedly, I'll play by any rules.

But I, for one, have never seen different yds/pt values for RB and WR.
My bad, I guess. A link or two would be welcome.

Just PLEASE don't go with some goofy number like 12. No one wants to track 0.0833 points per yard.