MLB - 2007 Season

[Imran Siddiqui]

And Ankiel hits his 4th HR of the year and guns down an opposing player at the plate in being essential to the Cards' winning ways against the Cubbies.

[Arrian]

****ing Angels.

That is all.

-Arrian

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
... the Cards' winning ways against the Cubbies.

Yes, that 4-6 head-to-head record this year is serving them well.

That said, Ankiel is an amazing story.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Arrian
****ing Angels.

That is all.

-Arrian

Great game last night.

Funny how the Gagme trade has worked out so well for the MFY. The Sox really need a reliever you can rely on for one out when you have a ten run lead. That deal is so bad it's making people forget how bad the Nancy Drew signing was...

Wonder how Epstein's Swiss bank account is doing. Or is it all due to Steinny's Epstein voodoo doll and psychic?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Gagne is just wierd. This may be a case where playing for a big market East Coast team is too much pressure and Gagne caved.

He was lights out in Texas, with a 2.16 ERA and a WHIP of 1.050, leading to an ERA+ of 212.

He gets the Boston and suddenly the wheels fall off. It's just bizarre. He's given up more runs in Boston (10) in 7 innings than he did in 33 innings with Texas (8).

[MichaeltheGreat]

I still think it was one of the stupidest moves Epstein ever made. I think Gagme has already dug himself such a deep hole he's done in Boston. The only way he could redeem himself with the fans would be to shut down the MFY two or three times, but who's going to trust him in that situation?

Gabbard may not be hall of fame material, but with Schill and Lester not quite the same, and Wake getting old, a decent, rookie-salary back of the rotation starter is a nice thing to have around. Especially when you have to spot start an already worn Tavarez.

Brandon Moss was a ****ing idiot in his short time up. Murphy is an excellent defensive outfielder, and his offensive numbers obscure the real potential - he's inconsistent and streaky, alternating between hitting the cover off the ball and going on Lugoesque funks. He may never break that pattern, but there's some potential there worth developing.

That trade so far has cost the Sox three games without doubt and probably a fourth.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hindsight is 20/20 . I can't recall a single person at the time who claimed it to be a bad move.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Hindsight is 20/20 . I can't recall a single person at the time who claimed it to be a bad move.

I did. In this thread, too.

Let's see - Timlin/Delcarmen -> Okajima -> Papelbon.

Yep, that definitely is a weakness. Gotta fix that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Meh... you said:

If Gagne turns out to be a three month rental, it's a real bad deal for the Sox.

And then said good things about the players going the other way. Said nothing about if the Sox actually kept Gagne, even if you now say you mean it was a bad deal but if it was just a rental, then a real bad deal .

Besides, you can really never have too many good bullpen arms, weakness or no. It really tends to help in the playoffs, for one.

[Arrian]

Gagne's not gonna be THIS bad.

But Francona probably shouldn't have annointed him the "8th inning guy."

He should have used Okajima & Gagne interchangeably when the matchups favored one or the other. I could be wrong, but I imagine Gagne is tough on righties and Okajima is death to lefties (and he's also great against righties). If so, use them accordingly. If not (reverse split?), use them the other way.

What I saw of Gagne was:

fastball, fastball, fastball, fastball...

It reminded me of Beckett last year. Too many straight fastballs, not enough offspeed/breaking stuff. Maybe Gagne, like Beckett last year, was having trouble getting his offspeed (changeup, right?) pitch(es) over for strikes. Correct that, and he should be all set.

Not that I haven't enjoyed his struggles. Note, Michael, that I haven't gloated about them.

-Arrian

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Meh... you said:

If Gagne turns out to be a three month rental, it's a real bad deal for the Sox.

And then said good things about the players going the other way. Said nothing about if the Sox actually kept Gagne, even if you now say you mean it was a bad deal but if it was just a rental, then a real bad deal .

I didn't mention the long term, because it would depend on too many unknown factors. Would Epstein make some crazy as a ****house reat trade of Paps or Okajima? How much would Boras extract from John Henry's wallet? How would you value Gagme during the try before you buy rental period?

Now, he's just clogging up a roster spot. I'd sooner have Manny try his hand at pitching than rely on Gagme for anything more than 1/3 of an inning with a ten run lead, or useless innings if you're ten runs down and have written off the game.

I figured he wouldn't bring anything to the table, and two good prospects gone. Having caused 3 big losses, he's become essentially unuseable. Now he doesn't bring anything to the table because you don't dare rely on him for anything but getting the MFY another chance to close the gap.

Besides, you can really never have too many good bullpen arms, weakness or no. It really tends to help in the playoffs, for one.

Operative word being "good" bullpen arms. Given three massively blown games, I'd rather take a chance on a AA or AAA prospect, or even recycle Craig Hansen.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Arrian
Gagne's not gonna be THIS bad.

But Francona probably shouldn't have annointed him the "8th inning guy."

He should have used Okajima & Gagne interchangeably when the matchups favored one or the other. I could be wrong, but I imagine Gagne is tough on righties and Okajima is death to lefties (and he's also great against righties). If so, use them accordingly. If not (reverse split?), use them the other way.

What I saw of Gagne was:

fastball, fastball, fastball, fastball...

It reminded me of Beckett last year. Too many straight fastballs, not enough offspeed/breaking stuff. Maybe Gagne, like Beckett last year, was having trouble getting his offspeed (changeup, right?) pitch(es) over for strikes. Correct that, and he should be all set.

Beckett's problem was that torn flap of skin business, which has been a recurring issue his whole career. That's why he stopped throwing breaking stuff. The training and coaching staff finally seems to have figured how to limit/manage that problem.

Gagme - who knows? His mechanics were sound in Texas, where he had no pressure on him and the games didn't matter.

He's looking like another Rent-a-wreck, who can't handle playing in Boston, no matter what he's done elsewhere.

Not that I haven't enjoyed his struggles. Note, Michael, that I haven't gloated about them.

-Arrian

Feel free to gloat. I just see Gagme in pinstripes.

[snoopy369]

The other Sox will happily take him ... i'm sure we have enough back-of-rotation rookie starters that you can have one or two

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Operative word being "good" bullpen arms. Given three massively blown games, I'd rather take a chance on a AA or AAA prospect, or even recycle Craig Hansen.

Because when the trade was made, it was known that Gagne would have completely broken down?

At the time it looked like a genius move. But the pitcher from Texas didn't make the trip.

[Arrian]

Gagme - who knows? His mechanics were sound in Texas, where he had no pressure on him and the games didn't matter.

Right, so being the Dodgers' closer was no pressure - less than being a setup guy in Boston? No.

I did read a report from some unnamed "AL GM" who said, at the time of the trade, that Gagne's stuff just wasn't what it used to be and that he might get pounded. That guy is sounding pretty smart right now, obviously.

Gagne needs to get his change over for strikes. If he does that, he'll get outs.

-Arrian