Rugby - Hands Off Green!

[ravagon]

I just popped in to explain how the whole Haka debacle is really Wales' fault.

I have no objection whatsoever to other teams coming up with a response to it but singing the national anthem isn't it.
Get the National anthems out of the way first, then the Haka, then an applicable response.
If bloody England can't come up with anything other than a mid field tea-party then they should just keep their traps shut.

Er, right, this was about Wales of course, wasn't it ...


As for the NZ press I regard them about as highly as any other press. I sincerely hope others don't pay them any mind either ...

[kittenOFchaos]

England should respond with a Morris Dance.

[finbar]

They'd trip over the side line into touch. When they'd do it a second time, five yards closer to the oppo line, A. Robinson would hail it as progress.

EDIT. According to the BBC this morning, most of yesterday's meeting at the RU was spent haggling over a settlement figure.

[Havak]

It’s always about England when I go sticking my oar in on a subject.

Difficult to think of a response other than singing – the only other martial challenge in the British locker is the tradition of showing you still have your bow string drawing fingers…that might cause some offence?

Yes the BBC are reporting that haggling is taking place over his settlement. Reportedly asking for £300K lump sum. From his POV I appreciate that as he will not coach again and is only 42.

If you dig a little deeper you can find a fascinating insight into the state of denial the man lives in.

Andy Robinson is expected to step down as England coach on Tuesday after a day of talks at the Rugby Football Union.

It is understood that RFU chief Francis Baron, elite director Rob Andrew and chairman Martyn Thomas asked Robinson to resign but he hopes to stay on.

The two most senior men in the RFU and his immediate boss ask him to resign and he still “hopes to stay on”.

But given that he was due to attend three days of world cup planning talks in Paris from today and has been left behind perhaps even he will now realise there is no miracle salvation on offer.
I am intrigued – they are trying to let him leave with a scrap of dignity – but is does look like they will be forced to sack him in the end.

[finbar]

Interesting comparing it to the ARU and Eddie Jones. They just sacked him.

Which isn't to say, of course, that Knuckles is doing a lot better. In fact, someone in the media pointed out that this northern tour was barely more successful than Eddie's last one. The one that, ultimately, brought about his downfall.

[Havak]

I suspect that the thumping of Scotland has bought him time though?

As for the RFU not just sacking him I suspect there is a huge penalty clause if he is pushed. He was stupidly given a contract to 2008 straight off - so I have no doubt Barron and Thomas let it include a huge golden parachute that is now the source of all the arguments about the pay off.

They will have to shove him eventually if he remains stubborn (and he does appear to have a considerable stubborn streak).

[finbar]

I read somewhere that the payout is the same regardless of whether he resigns or is sacked. And if the RFU signed up to a ridiculously generous out-clause, more fool them.

Knuckles is/was safe regardless. There's no one else, apart from Ewan McKenzie, the Waratahs' coach, and he withdrew his name from consideration prior to Knuckles' appointment. Sensible decision, too. It was a poisoned chalice. It's depressing, really. After a couple of years of the Wallabies underachieving, there's almost a mindset of expecting mediocre to average performances.

Shades of where you are at.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by ravagon
I have no objection whatsoever to other teams coming up with a response to it but singing the national anthem isn't it.
Get the National anthems out of the way first, then the Haka, then an applicable response.
If bloody England can't come up with anything other than a mid field tea-party then they should just keep their traps shut.

The ABs should take heed of the fact that it is indeed a courtesy, and extend that courtesy back!

Wales were probably just trying to get into the spirit of the pre match spectacle by wishing to respond to the haka, which I think is commendable.

Where I think they may have come unstuck, is by not following the 'protocol' of the game in 1905 where both anthems were played, the ABs did their haka - and then the Welsh players sang their anthem again in response to that...

Either way, the ABs response on the day was frankly childish - if they were that 'insulted' they would have replied immediately to the 16 Oct proposal, not wait till the very last minute. That just forced the WRU into a situation they couldn't back down from without losing face.

I would call them a bunch of cry baby pussies, but it is a bit difficult to do that when we got tonked 45-10...

Anyway, the ABs better lighten up or the haka's days might be numbered and that would be a bad thing for the sport all round.

[finbar]

Robinson future remains in doubt

The fate of England's beleaguered head coach Andy Robinson is still unclear after talks failed to broker a resolution on Tuesday afternoon.

Rugby Football Union elite director Rob Andrew left Twickenham just before 1500 GMT without commenting to the media.

Maybe they left A. Robinson in the office with a pistol and a bottle of port hoping he'd do the honorable thing.

The next sound you hear will be Havak tearing out his remaining hair.

[LDiCesare]

I think you don't understand Robinson's point of view. Let's check the last few matches of England with a few figures.
England lost to the AB by 41-20. They did better than France on their first test, who lost 47-3. Considering France lost only 23-11 on the second match, which is half the score from the blacks and +8 for the other side, the English would logically have won 28-21 has they played against the AB's again. They obviously couldn't since they were busy beating the Boks.
So, mathematically, the English have as good as beaten NZ and beaten the Boks too. And you'd have their coach sacked?

No matter what, I can't seem to find any delusional explanation for the loss of so many matches one after the other, though.

[finbar]

You have penetrated the psyche of A. Robinson!

Flee! Flee!

[ravagon]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


The ABs should take heed of the fact that it is indeed a courtesy, and extend that courtesy back!

Wales were probably just trying to get into the spirit of the pre match spectacle by wishing to respond to the haka, which I think is commendable.

Where I think they may have come unstuck, is by not following the 'protocol' of the game in 1905 where both anthems were played, the ABs did their haka - and then the Welsh players sang their anthem again in response to that...

Either way, the ABs response on the day was frankly childish - if they were that 'insulted' they would have replied immediately to the 16 Oct proposal, not wait till the very last minute. That just forced the WRU into a situation they couldn't back down from without losing face.

I would call them a bunch of cry baby pussies, but it is a bit difficult to do that when we got tonked 45-10...

Anyway, the ABs better lighten up or the haka's days might be numbered and that would be a bad thing for the sport all round.

It depends on how you look at it really. Had they indeed reverted to the Welsh players again rendering the Welsh anthem in response I wouldn't have had a problem with it at all. Neither, I suspect, would the All Black team.
Instead they effectively decided to bump the haka. If they're determined to reduce things to the level of playing such mind games then I applaud Richie and the team for not rising to such nonsense.
If keeping face means that much to the WRU then they shouldn't have started playing games in the first place.
Had the AB's telegraphed their intentions well in advance they would have undoubtably been slandered in the Welsh press, purely on the basis that he who gets in first, (ie: undoubtably the WRU) and keeps repeating the same thing is always right. Thankfully the AB management is not that foolish.

If the Welsh do want to come up with some sort of Gaelic wardance or somesuch I support it wholeheartedly.
It's probably not something they want to pull out of nowhere against NZ however, firstly as it'd have a chance of being a flop and secondly they'd really want to try it out for the first time before a game where they have a much more reasonable expectation of winning.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
I think you don't understand Robinson's point of view. Let's check the last few matches of England with a few figures.
England lost to the AB by 41-20. They did better than France on their first test, who lost 47-3. Considering France lost only 23-11 on the second match, which is half the score from the blacks and +8 for the other side, the English would logically have won 28-21 has they played against the AB's again. They obviously couldn't since they were busy beating the Boks.
So, mathematically, the English have as good as beaten NZ and beaten the Boks too. And you'd have their coach sacked?

No matter what, I can't seem to find any delusional explanation for the loss of so many matches one after the other, though.

[Havak]

Seems to be some confusion there Ravagon - NZ bumped the haka not the WRU.

Both sides have handled it badly - but the arrogance ratio is sitting firmly towards the NZ Unions side.

Mobius has a simple point - if it was a problem why not mention it on 16th october instead of on the morning of the test.

And I have no particular vested interest here - you certainly cannot claim I like either Wales or the ABs more. It was truly a game where I was a neutral.

Although I hate to confess that I do enjoy watching how both play the game at the moment.

And LDiCesare is very clearly channelling Andy Robinson. His job offer from the RFU is probably in the post.

[finbar]

Gatland and Mallet seem to feature as potential replacements. How would you rank them? And/or who else would you add to the list?