Forgive those that trespass? Not in AZ

[DaShi]

I used to live in Albequerque, New York, and Boston and saw plenty of Mexicans (all fine upstanding citizens, mind you), and I also don't know what zaku means by "do their own thing."

[Kuciwalker]

KH, you'd know what that means if you had ever EVEN SEEN a Mexican. I bet you've never even seen a FURRINER of ANY STRIPE.

[Docfeelgood]

I saw a dog try to hump a cat once.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Were they Mexican animals?!

[Solomwi]

I used to live in Albequerque, New York, and Boston and saw plenty of Mexicans (all fine upstanding citizens, mind you), and I also don't know what zaku means by "do their own thing."

That's because you're a LIBRUL who refuses to see what's around you and wants all our children to have to LEARN SPANISH just to go to school and wants these Mexicans here so they can take all our jobs and welfare benefits, clog up our emergency rooms, sell drugs, and kill good, God-fearing, white AMERICANS. Have you ever been replaced by an illegal immigrant, DaShi? Didn't think so.

[zakubandit]

Kuci, America is a republic, and yes a representative democracy. The problem with this is that an RD will always be a republic but a republic will not always be an RD. I heard you what you have said, that you agree and support laws being passed without your knowledge or consent, ie; fascist police state.

And yea the power structure, though heavily flawed exists:

The Powers of the Federal Government
* The federal government is known as a limited government. Its powers are restricted to those explicitly (directly) stated in the Constitution. Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution is the main source of the federal government's explicit powers. Some examples include, the power to regulate interstate commerce, establish an army and navy, and print and coin money.

* In the case of McCulloch v. Maryland, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the federal government also possesses certain implied powers. Implied powers are those not explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, but that are necessary for the government to function. For instance, the federal government has the implied power to charter a bank because it has the explicit power to regulate trade, coin money, collect taxes, etc.

* Some powers of the federal government are exclusive. Only the federal government may exercise them. Only the federal government may print money or raise an army. Other powers of the federal government are concurrent. They may be exercised by both the federal and state governments, e.g., both may collect taxes.

* Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights place restrictions on the power of the federal government.

The Powers of the State Governments
* Any powers that the Constitution does not give to the federal government nor explicitly prohibit the states from exercising belong to the state governments. Article I, Section 10 of the Constitution provides a list of powers which the states may not exercise. For example, the states may not tax goods that are transported from one state to another.

* Each state also has its own Constitution which establishes that State's government and lists rights that the state government may not violate (they usually are called Bills of Rights and parallel the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights). These constitutions are the supreme law of the land in each state.

* State laws usually have the most direct impact on people's lives. They touch upon such diverse subjects as traffic regulations, insurance, and the requirements for marriage.

* Article IV of the U.S. Constitution regulates the relations of the states to each another, e.g., the Full Faith and Credit clause requires the states to respect each other's laws.

* The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates (applies) most of the provisions of the Bill of Rights, to the states. The Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits the states from treating people differently without legal justification.

So the federal government has explicit rights to dictate who is trespassing on state property or not? Doesn't really seem that way when the whole point is that the states are the states and that the federal government is not a supreme power but is an element of state power.

[zakubandit]

Do their own thing. Ok Dashi, you said you've seen some, but have you really lived with them apart of your daily routine? If you have I wouldn't need to explain this.

Start at childhood and adolescence, they don't get English in the home so they don't use English in schools, which is still the dominant language in the USA. Drain school funds for ESL classes and piss off a lot of tax payers that 2 illegal parents can make 1 legal kid.
Move on to work; again usually limited English at this point or limited documents so they work under the table. So in some cases you have an illegal working with a citizen, the citizen pays taxes through their paycheck while the illegal would get the same pay with no withdrawn taxes. They have their own way of doing things, and ignore things said to them in English.
As they grow older the trend goes round again, they never learned English or don't use it at home so their kids don't use it and don't care for the language either.

This is not intended to be read as a EVERYONE is the same, but living in Tucson that is what I went through during my HS years, and then in the Army you'd be surprised but I actually had 1 guy (he got kicked out) who would refuse to speak English to anyone. I can't speak to half of my wife's family because they never wanted to learn English in all of their decades being in the US legally. So what makes illegals different, they do their own thing. They avoid paying taxes, they constantly break the law, they leech off of tax paying society.

[Kuciwalker]

Kuci, America is a republic, and yes a representative democracy. The problem with this is that an RD will always be a republic but a republic will not always be an RD. I heard you what you have said, that you agree and support laws being passed without your knowledge or consent, ie; fascist police state.

I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.

So the federal government has explicit rights to dictate who is trespassing on state property or not? Doesn't really seem that way when the whole point is that the states are the states and that the federal government is not a supreme power but is an element of state power.

As cited before, Article 2 section 8 of the Constitution explicitly empowers the federal government to regulate immigration. I can paste the text of the Constitution again if you like; you don't seem to have read or understood it the first time.

Additionally, as cited before, Article 6 of the Constitution explicitly states that the Constitution and the laws passed by Congress are the "supreme Law of the Land".

[Kuciwalker]

By the way, this "laws get passed without your knowledge or consent" thing? That's how the federal government has worked since the Constitution was ratified, i.e. for its entire history. That's why we have elections; periodically, if we don't like the way our Representatives vote, we get to kick them out of office.

[SlowwHand]

You can petition those that represent you, too.

[zakubandit]

No, Kuci. No. Transparency of the government. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not congress. If you honestly believe the the Congress is the supreme law then you have already surrendered into allowing a dictatorship to be allowed. The Constitution is where all power is derived, given to the government by the people of the states. Remember our revolution, where the colonies rebelled, got freedom, became states on the articles of Confederation, held the Constitutional Convention, some states ratified the Constitution while others argued it as wrong, federal government was formed to defend the borders, maintain the amendments, and coin money and not derive its own funds through business, direct taxation, etc. The people maintain the right to overturn the government when the government usurps power and neglects the will of the people, or destroys the foundation of freedom and rights.

Laws being passed without the consent of the people seems an awful lot like a dictatorship to me and your saying you agree with that?

The state maintains a right to decide how it will control state property. If the state decides it will consider non-citizens as trespassers the state maintains a right to do so. That has nothing to do with the regulation of immigration from national borders. Because once you are on state property you have to be permitted to be there. You can't just walk onto a military post without military ID because it is trespassing and you can be held in jail for doing so. You can't just barge into the Library of Congress whenever you want, etc. The state is the one who mandates what it does with its own property, not the federal government. The federal government has no authority to tell a state what it can and cannot do, it set guidelines. Where in abortion is legal in some states, it has no standing at the national level as of current. Where in some states legalize medicinal marijuana, the federal government has no standing as of current. Now if the federal government legalized marijuana but the state of Ohio decided that in the states best interest marijuana would still be illegal, your going to tell me the state doesn't get a choice in that? That would be a dictatorship.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not congress.

Someone has never heard of the Supremacy Clause it appears:

Article VI

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

Laws which are Constitutional ARE the Supreme Law of the land. And the Constitution gives the Federal government power over immigration.

How can you possibly be so dumb in how your own government works?

some states ratified the Constitution while others argued it as wrong

Actually every one of the 13 original states ratified the Constitution. Some factions in those states may have approved, but they were unsuccessful.

The state maintains a right to decide how it will control state property.

This law doesn't cover solely state property. It can tell people to leave state owned property like parks, but it can't deport people out of the state... cause guess what, the state doesn't own all the land.

Now if the federal government legalized marijuana but the state of Ohio decided that in the states best interest marijuana would still be illegal, your going to tell me the state doesn't get a choice in that? That would be a dictatorship.

Your Orwellian attempts to redefine words is amusing, but elected representatives at the federal level trumping over state law is amazing un-dictatorial.

[zakubandit]

The Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the United States. Empowered with the sovereign authority of the people by the framers and the consent of the legislatures of the states, it is the source of all government powers, and also provides important limitations on the government that protect the fundamental rights of United States citizens.

Wanna know where this is from?

[zakubandit]

Ok, so in America where the power to govern is granted by the governed but the governed actually don't get to say anything at all. The representatives of the state derived federal government can decide what states will and will not do, can and cannot do. The citizens will obey all laws created without their knowledge or consent by the federal government, all amendments to the constitution created by the federal government without their knowledge or consent, and the federal government can, should, and will decide what is best for the united states as a whole without the voice of the constituents being taken into consideration. OK. I think I understand now.


Where is the freedom and republic in that?

[Kuciwalker]

No, Kuci. No. Transparency of the government. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not congress. If you honestly believe the the Congress is the supreme law then you have already surrendered into allowing a dictatorship to be allowed.

Here is a direct quote of Article VI of the Constitution of the United States of America:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land

So, you are wrong, and the Constitution says you are wrong. Along with the Constitution and treaties, Congressional law is the "supreme Law of the Land".

Laws being passed without the consent of the people seems an awful lot like a dictatorship to me and your saying you agree with that?

Are you saying you disagree with the Constitution and the way our government has worked for two centuries? It's not dictatorship when you can vote the representatives out of office

The state maintains a right to decide how it will control state property. If the state decides it will consider non-citizens as trespassers the state maintains a right to do so.

But that's not what the law you posted in the OP does