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  • Forgive those that trespass? Not in AZ

    PHOENIX -- The Arizona state House is considering a proposal to criminalize illegal immigrants as trespassers if police have reasonable suspicion to check a person's immigration status and find it lacking.

    The tough new proposal is already being challenged for its constitutionality. Opponents cite a 2005 ruling by a New Hampshire judge who dismissed trespassing charges against illegal immigrants, arguing police chiefs in two communities did not have the jurisdiction to apply state laws to a federal issue.

    Advocates for immigrant rights also say they fear it could lead to racial profiling that would target Latinos living legally in the state.

    "It's almost impossible for it to be applied without relying on racial profiling and without committing egregious errors," said Jennifer Allen, director of the Border Action Network, an immigrant rights group based in southern Arizona.

    But supporters say the measure wouldn't encourage racial profiling because officers would still need probable cause to believe that people violated the law before they could arrest them.

    Some of Arizona's police forces have already established rules for enforcing federal immigration laws, and say it's up to them to make up for inadequate federal border efforts.

    "The argument that the states can't do anything to combat illegal immigration is just wrong," Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas said.

    His office helped draft the bill for sponsor state Sen. Russell Pearce. The legislation cleared the Senate on a 16-12 vote on June 15.

    Some local politicians "don't have the courage to stand up for their citizens," Pearce said.

    Former Gov. Janet Napolitano, who is now the nation's homeland security secretary, vetoed two similar proposals in 2006, saying immigrants who sneak into the state shouldn't be made into criminals.

    Under this year's proposed trespassing provision, a first offense would be a top-tier misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail. Subsequent violations would be a felony that could carry a penalty of up to 2 1/2 years in prison.

    Agencies arresting first-time offenders would have the option of prosecuting them or turning them over to federal authorities.

    Linton Joaquin, general counsel for the National Immigration Law Center, an advocacy group for low-income immigrants, said a state can play a part in immigration enforcement -- such as calling federal authorities when arresting an illegal immigrant on a state criminal violation -- but a state can't have statutes that are, in effect, immigration laws.

    Opponents add that such a law would detract from officers' traditional roles in combating crimes in their communities. They say officers who aren't schooled in the complexities of immigration law would likely approach people based solely on their appearance.

    Robert DeVries, president of the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police and police chief for Kingman, a town in western Alaska, said communities better be prepared for the cost of errors made by police officers untrained in immigration law.

    "It exposes the community down the line if mistakes were to occur," said DeVries, whose group opposes the measure.

    The Associated Press contributed to this report.
    So for once a state is going to do what states should do. Fedy's are ignoring the people's call for getting the illegals out, so the state's move to do it themselves. Arrest them for a local crime, if they fail to provide papers then send them up the chain to get deported.

    And yea, this law shouldn't even be proposed. Illegal. <-----is that confusing? We get arrested if we get caught with cocaine, because it is illegal. I can't just go into Starbucks and get a mocha completely naked, because that would be illegal. I can't even pass through a red light, in the middle of nowhere, at 3am because it is illegal. So how hard is it to understand that if you are not a citizen, and don't have papers to be here that you are illegal and get deported? Is that really confusing to some people? And with the economy down AZ citizens are not going to allow illegals to take any of their jobs. Fed's are slacking at getting the border down there in check, so let the states do it themselves...they are sovereign anyways.
    ARIZONA! illegals

    *note: call me a racist to Mexicans if you want, but I am married to one.*
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
    "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

  • #2
    I'm sure someone here who has white man guilt will call you a racist.

    Comment


    • #3
      Everyone is racist to some extent, or at some point. Tell me no one was kind of sketchy with Arabs after 9-11. Tell me people don't see a black guy on the corner of NYC or LA with chains and big pants, and just look away because they think he's a dealer or banger.
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
      "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

      Comment


      • #4
        This is retarded. Immigration is a federal matter. The states cannot prosecute illegal immigration as an infraction of a state statute.

        What a bunch of ridiculous grandstanding. The first time this comes to a judge he's going to laugh it out of court.
        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
        Stadtluft Macht Frei
        Killing it is the new killing it
        Ultima Ratio Regum

        Comment


        • #5
          KH you miss the point. They aren't charging them with illegal entry to the US, but with trespassing on STATE property without valid identification. And this wouldn't even be having to be discussed if the Feds would actually do something instead of letting more illegals pour in day after day. I lived in Tucson, AZ for 8 years and I had a few oh my HS jobs taken from me due to illegals, this is needed. This, or the NGs being sent to the border to aid the BP. Or BPs being allowed to fully do their jobs.

          Besides, the State has a right to defend itself if the national government fails to protect the state.
          "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
          "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

          Comment


          • #6
            trespassing on STATE property without valid identification


            So if some white dude doesn't have a driver's license in a AZ state park, he's going to jail? Don't think so.

            Be tossed out of federal court in 2 seconds.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.â€
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

            Comment


            • #7
              Some white dude who doesn't have his license, but can supply authorities a SSN...can an illegal do that?
              "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
              "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by zakubandit View Post
                So for once a state is going to do what states should do. Fedy's are ignoring the people's call for getting the illegals out, so the state's move to do it themselves. Arrest them for a local crime, if they fail to provide papers then send them up the chain to get deported.

                And yea, this law shouldn't even be proposed. Illegal. <-----is that confusing? We get arrested if we get caught with cocaine, because it is illegal. I can't just go into Starbucks and get a mocha completely naked, because that would be illegal. I can't even pass through a red light, in the middle of nowhere, at 3am because it is illegal. So how hard is it to understand that if you are not a citizen, and don't have papers to be here that you are illegal and get deported? Is that really confusing to some people? And with the economy down AZ citizens are not going to allow illegals to take any of their jobs. Fed's are slacking at getting the border down there in check, so let the states do it themselves...they are sovereign anyways.
                ARIZONA! illegals

                *note: call me a racist to Mexicans if you want, but I am married to one.*

                I always find it funny when the people who have the biggest hard-on for the Constitution are so willing to set it aside when immigrants come up. The Founders were unusually explicit in leaving matters of naturalization and regulating non-naturalized aliens within the federal power, and it wasn't by accident. If you don't like it, amend it.
                Unbelievable!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Former Gov. Janet Napolitano, who is now the nation's homeland security secretary, vetoed two similar proposals in 2006, saying immigrants who sneak into the state shouldn't be made into criminals.
                  This makes me feel so much safer with her at DHS.
                  I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                  For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Darius, my family were immigrants a few generations back. They went through the legal system to get their citizenship and then had to deal with the hardships of being Irish in a time when being Irish was a half a step up from being black. If the illegals that are in the US REALLY want to be here then they can go about it the right way. I have no problems with immigration, as long as it is legal then it is no problem. All those who say that kicking illegals out goes against the Constitution are forgetting that they are called illegals for a reason.
                    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
                    "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by zakubandit View Post
                      Some white dude who doesn't have his license, but can supply authorities a SSN...can an illegal do that?
                      So they are going to have a computer with SSNs around with them? Weren't SSNs distinctly NOT to be used as government identification, and that's one of the reason they were acceptable?

                      edit: Doing some quick research, state officials demanding SSNs may be violating the Privacy Act of 1974.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.â€
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by zakubandit View Post
                        Darius, my family were immigrants a few generations back. They went through the legal system to get their citizenship and then had to deal with the hardships of being Irish in a time when being Irish was a half a step up from being black. If the illegals that are in the US REALLY want to be here then they can go about it the right way. I have no problems with immigration, as long as it is legal then it is no problem. All those who say that kicking illegals out goes against the Constitution are forgetting that they are called illegals for a reason.
                        I'm not arguing whether or not illegal immigration is "bad" or whether or not more should be done about it. The question here is simply what powers state and federal governments derive from the Constitution, and regulating aliens is one limited to the latter.
                        Unbelievable!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Zaku, the more effective measure the state could take if it were serious about combating the problem would be to mandate the use of E-verify.
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It seems to be that the argument against the AZ state government is that it is either outside of its rights as a state to protect its borders and peoples. And that requiring citizens to provide reliable proof of citizenship is wrong.

                            When you are pulled over by a police officer you supply them with identification which then then run through the system to prove either legal or not, etc. This is not an infraction against personal freedoms and rights. The same would go with the trespass law. With a justified reason for a police officer to question a Hispanic's citizenship they should have no problems providing the correct information to prove their citizenship unless they are not a citizen. Racial profiling...well what people, nationality, or race is it that are coming from Mexico across the US-Mexican border? I don't think its Chinese, Indians, or Africans.

                            The point that the AZ Legislature is trying to make is that it is obvious that the Federal government has not put illegal immigration high enough on a list of priorities. That it is an obvious problem to the people of Arizona, and an obvious problem to their economy and that they are willing to find ways to curtail illegal immigrants and send them to Federal custody for processing and deportation. I would see no reason for people to want to fight this unless they honestly do believe that illegal immigrants have every right to enter American territory without legal process, legal documents, etc. IMHO all illegals need to be out of the country, no questions asked and revoked status of children born from 2 illegal parents.

                            And like I said, my wife is Hispanic. Her families are from Nicaragua and Mexico, and all got to the US legally. They know my stance on this issue and they respect it because they believe the same.
                            "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
                            "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by zakubandit View Post
                              Some white dude who doesn't have his license, but can supply authorities a SSN...can an illegal do that?
                              For somebody who probably professes great pride in the constitution you're certainly happy to ignore it whenever you feel like...
                              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                              Stadtluft Macht Frei
                              Killing it is the new killing it
                              Ultima Ratio Regum

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