Let's talk about Western Sahara

[I AM MOBIUS]

I've long been fascinated about the place and I'm glad a recent post about my reasons for boycotting Christopher Nolan's Odyssey have piqued some curiosity...

Trump just had a highway named after him, why...?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/7/31/morocco-names-tiznit-dakhla-highway-after-trump-why-it-matters

[I AM MOBIUS]

Also, only today, 60,000 migrants stormed Spain's African exclave of Ceuta. Fascinating place. Have you heard of it? Probably not.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/7/31/spain-pm-to-visit-ceuta-after-19-migrants-die-breaching-border-from-morocco

[BeBMan]

It's all over the news

[I AM MOBIUS]

These two things are linked. It is called Western Sahara

What makes me laugh is the audacious hypocrisy of your average nation state: Spain's hostility over the UK's possession of Gibraltar, and yet holding onto Ceuta and Melilla; likewise Morocco wanting those territories, and yet illegally occupying Western Sahara...

My heart goes out to the Sahrawi people. Heard of them? Probably not 😢

[I AM MOBIUS]

It's all over the news

I meant, had people heard of Ceuta before all this...?

[N35t0r]

I meant, had people heard of Ceuta before all this...?

I'm sure most EU players have, at the very least.

[The Mad Monk]

This YT I watched about a year ago does a very good job of properly explaining wtf Mobius is probably going on about.

[BeBMan]

Speaking of Trump, he's now pro gun control. At least in Gaza.

[N35t0r]

These two things are linked. It is called Western Sahara

What makes me laugh is the audacious hypocrisy of your average nation state: Spain's hostility over the UK's possession of Gibraltar, and yet holding onto Ceuta and Melilla; likewise Morocco wanting those territories, and yet illegally occupying Western Sahara...

My heart goes out to the Sahrawi people. Heard of them? Probably not 😢

Except Ceuta and Melilla have been in Spanish or Portuguese hands for twice as long as Gibraltar has been British.

Ceuta was captured by Portugal before the end of the reconquista, so I'm interested in what the argument would be for Spain to give it to Morocco that doesn't also include Granada.

Melilla actually offered to pledge its loyalty to Spain shortly after the end of the reconquista in order to gain is protection and stop the constant back and forth between Tlemcen and Fez that were ravaging it.

But yeah, I can see how it's totally similar to Gibraltar, which was conquered and most of its population expelled.

[Dauphin]

Why does it matter whether it was five years or a thousand years? Why does it matter how far away the primary country (UK) is away from the land they administer (Gibraltar)? Why does it matter that a people were expelled or never owned it? Why does any cited metric matter?

I'm not being being flippant or saying it doesn't matter, but it seems to me that most general public don't consider the reasons or logic, they'll just latch on to something that supports their nationalistic or jingoistic pre-dispositions. If Gibraltar were Spanish, nationalistic minded folk in England would be up in arms, even though it makes no difference to their daily lives. Same thing with Ireland and the republican movement, etc.

Political reality (including economics, diplomacy, military, etc) is what ultimately decides. Whether is moral or right, is for the birds.

[The Mad Monk]

These are the last vestiges of colonialism, soon to fade away as a mist before the morning sun.

[N35t0r]

Why does it matter whether it was five years or a thousand years? Why does it matter how far away the primary country (UK) is away from the land they administer (Gibraltar)? Why does it matter that a people were expelled or never owned it? Why does any cited metric matter?

I'm not being being flippant or saying it doesn't matter, but it seems to me that most general public don't consider the reasons or logic, they'll just latch on to something that supports their nationalistic or jingoistic pre-dispositions. If Gibraltar were Spanish, nationalistic minded folk in England would be up in arms, even though it makes no difference to their daily lives. Same thing with Ireland and the republican movement, etc.

Political reality (including economics, diplomacy, military, etc) is what ultimately decides. Whether is moral or right, is for the birds.

Oh, I 100% understand you. I come from Argentina, where most of the population bear an irrational hate for England over a bunch of irrelevant islands in the South Atlantic.

[N35t0r]

These are the last vestiges of colonialism, soon to fade away as a mist before the morning sun.

You don't meet to look in that much detail into a map of Africa to see huge vestiges of colonialism. Or to look at Russia. That's not going away any time soon.

[The Mad Monk]

Hey, I'm having a moment here.