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"Trump is following a playbook written for him by Christian White Nationalists."

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  • Originally posted by Provost Harrison View Post

    I'm not talking about punishment being literally inflicted but being the consequence of actions and a sudden, forced shift in geopolitics almost akin to an extinction level event on an ecosystem. Trump's moves have been repugnant to all around and no one wants to be involved in that. From governments to individuals deciding what products to buy, where to go on holiday next, who to go to for their next consignment of military equipment and systems. All turning away from the US. Those military bases in Europe previously thought to be those of an ally with everyone's best interests at heart? Now seen as a very real internal threat. Who knows when they could turn at the behest of Trump? Who can trust your equipment to not be compromised when you are actively collaborating with enemies of the free world?

    But if Trump follows through on his words it proves he is consistent. And traitorous and untrustworthy. If he doesn't then he's still untrustworthy. Either way, no one can rely on the US, and that is going to hurt.

    And good luck with the end of his term, if we have moved this far in a month, what does 4 years hold in store? Even if the man himself is gone (he is old, he is not going to be around for that long) this is a new order in the US which has irrevocably changed your political landscape. Political purges are going on, puppets being placed in prominent positions. So another step for the rest of the world is damage limitation and quickly due to the volatility of the situation - and the man. Getting the hell away from the US before anything worse happens. To be associated with this, what next sleight from an ally will incur the US's wrath? It results in one inevitable truth, the US cannot be trusted on any level. All of your checks and balances have failed (I mean when you have the political appointing the judiciary directly in this manner then this can happen). And no one wants to be at the mercy of your, let's not mince our words here, dictatorship. Only a dictator can make such direct orders and for them to go virtually unchallenged. And to have such an erratic dictator too. I don't think it is a stretch to describe your country as looking like a banana republic at the moment.
    You seem to be operating from the assumption that this gigantic own-goal by the US will have relevance to the rest of the free world mainly for the nuisance of brushing off the distasteful reminders of the ruined alliance with a US which the rest of the free world can watch implode under the weight of its own incompetence while pivoting to other non-specified poles of power if needed or if the free world instead just closes ranks around a smaller but interally multipolar free-world pole.

    This situation may in fact be even more dangerous for the rest of the free world than it is for the US as a state. China and a down but totally undefeated Russia both have strong reasons to consider striking in various ways to end the cohesion of the rest of the free world while the opportunity to do so remains. China almost certainly could so entirely absent any military means at all purely by wealth, economic footprint and divide and conquer. Russia simply by calling NATO's bluff as the non-US NATO starts acting to punish and exclude the US as a potential threat. Russia has drastically weakened itself in Ukraine but it also has maintained much higher mobilization. Russia's nuclear bluff was called because China made clear it would not stand for it and because MAD still applied to the US and Russia. Will Britain's nuclear deterrent on US SLBMs be considered credible? Will the French nuclear deterrent be enough?

    At this stage I think it's terribly dangerous to be planning on how to counter the US. Acting against the US in a generally hostile way will probably only increase the danger. Even relatively informal rebuffs could be counterproductive such as turning to China for almost anything at all supplied by the US but especially defense material. Instead, the focus should be on demonstrating unity of the rest of the free world to oppose the betrayal directly but leave room for some kind of reproachment. It has to be clear that the existing betrayals and any further betrayals will not pay off but also clear that the US is not generally viewed as a new enemy and that there's a path to be some kind of friend again. Even Germany and Japan only had to wait outside the alliance for a relative few years.
    Last edited by Geronimo; February 21, 2025, 15:47.

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