The Israeli and US Genocide Double Act Thread

[Geronimo]

But what should be done? Those who want to tighten thumbscrews on Israel until Israel stops operations that can hit civilians and hit UN human shields what should be done about Hamas and Hezbollah to reign them in? Those who think Israel has little choice but to maintain a military response to Hamas and Hezbollah what should be done to allow non terrorist Palestinians to live their lives as free people?

I advocate for a (largely symbolic) "destruction of the Zionist entity" with a plan and corresponding basic law/constitutional path to a viable one state solution from the river to the sea that guarantees the rights of everyone and maintains continuity to the current state of Israel as the antecedent state. I think the northern Irish models and South African models are the closest thing we'll find to a viable role model. Two state solutions in tiny areas always seem to disintegrate into armed conflict and economic meltdown.

[Ming]

Nice try... unfortunately, the terrorists STATED GOAL is the elimination of the state of Israel. And until they change that, or the people actually take over from the terrorists, you can advocate all you want but it won't happen. Plus, there is no way the Israel's would accept that either.
Give them their own state, and find guarantees for the safety of Israel. At this point, it's the only realistic option. The Israel's would accept that, but I don't think the terrorists would.

[Geronimo]

Nice try... unfortunately, the terrorists STATED GOAL is the elimination of the state of Israel. And until they change that, or the people actually take over from the terrorists, you can advocate all you want but it won't happen. Plus, there is no way the Israel's would accept that either.
Give them their own state, and find guarantees for the safety of Israel. At this point, it's the only realistic option. The Israel's would accept that, but I don't think the terrorists would.

Israel has to be made to swallow some tough pills just as South Africa was while Hamas and Hezbollah need to be encouraged to not exist by all available means.

[giblets]

If Palestine had their own state they would deport the Israeli settlers from the West Bank. Israel is not going to ever accept a sovereign Palestinian state. People who think a two state solution is possible at this point are in denial of basic facts.

[N35t0r]

And with terrorists launching rockets at population centers, taking hostages and raping women, do you think they are?
I'm sure most of the actual people/civilians on both sides would like peace, but it doesn't seem like the leaders on both side want it.

The terrorists are terrorists, I think that's pretty much acknowledged by all here (except Mobius I guess), and they should be dealt with accordingly (and no, flattening Gaza and Lebanon to the ground will not work, just like years of heavy handed repression against the IRA or ETA never worked).
Israel, however, keeps making sure that the more peaceful Palestinian faction (Fatah in the West Bank) is perceived as useless and despondent, while Hamas is perceived as effective and strong, while at the same time ensuring that Hamas is as belligerent as possible by assassinating it's more moderate leaders.

Israel likes to tout it's the only real democracy in the middle east? They should well behave like it then. But if they're going to take the behavior of the worse on the other side and aim to match that, then why wouldn't Palestinians do the same (and behave just like the settlers who steal Palestinian land, and terrorize and murder Palestinians to then hide behind the IDF to avoid any consequences)?

[MOBIUS]

I definitely think there exists a serious problem that everyone seems to think that the actions of one side of the israeli-palestinian conflict are so much less acceptable than the other that it is dangerous to concede any legitimacy with any position of the other side at all lest it be construed as suggesting some kind of dangerous moral equivalency. We have to resist falling into such logic. Israel should never have been allowed to create these bantustans in the areas in controls, especially without a plan to transition them to something sustainable and every lever, including military aid should have been used to stop it and to fix it. Hamas and Hezbollah should never have been permitted to gain control of anywhere or receive any funding.

My take is that by the time Hamas was able to "successfully execute" its 7 oct 2023 "operation" it was too late for anything other than a massive response by the IDF in the densely populated area that Hamas operates from. Trying to twist arms to constrain Isreal at that point would not only fail to save any lives long term but quite likely would only speed up the cycle to the next such "successful operation" by Hamas. At this point the focus should be on pressuring Israel to clean up the mess afterwards and on both Egypt and Israel to take in and provide safe havens for the civilians caught in the middle. If the US ends up having to provide the safe haven (much more expensive logistically) Israel and Egypt had better expect to foot the bill in diminished military aid. My guess however is that *nobody* will take the initiative to gets the population out of harm's way and that if anybody does a huge fraction of the population will refuse the offer and elect to remain in the crossfire. insanity.

IDK, maybe because one side is deliberately starving the 2.3m civilians it hasn't already bombed and murdered in the concentration camp it's been imprisoning them in for decades already!? 🙄🤷♂️

https://youtu.be/cHPmq784w54?si=KFsyWG5pswn-WDY4

[MOBIUS]

You should open your eyes... Your simplistic view on the situation is just that... Bad Israel, Good Terrorists... got it.

Nice one. That's literally the opposite of what I said.

You've got no comeback whatsoever as you've lost the argument but can't bring yourself to admit it. Got it. 👍

[giblets]

Israel kills thousands of people: we're supposed to care about the context

Palestine kills hundreds of people: we're not supposed to care about the context

[Geronimo]

IDK, maybe because one side is deliberately starving the 2.3m civilians it hasn't already bombed and murdered in the concentration camp it's been imprisoning them in for decades already!? 🙄🤷♂️

https://youtu.be/cHPmq784w54?si=KFsyWG5pswn-WDY4

are you nuts? when has the other side ever passed up an opportunity to kill Israelis?

[MOBIUS]

Says the person who is ok with the deliberate starving the 2.3m civilians it hasn't already bombed and murdered in the concentration camp it's been imprisoning them in for decades already...🙄

At what point in your life did you jettison your humanity? 😥

[Geronimo]

Says the person who is ok with the deliberate starving the 2.3m civilians it hasn't already bombed and murdered in the concentration camp it's been imprisoning them in for decades already...🙄

At what point in your life did you jettison your humanity? 😥

they are not deliberately starving those people, they are starving an area that those people are encouraged to vacate. how is this different from how Russia dealt with Mariupol or any other population center in the Donbas? Food aid was tied to occupation and control there as well and you seem to only object to Israel doing that.

[Bereta_Eder]

I don't like israelis or palestinians.

Butif I Had to choose I'd choose israelis. For various morally utilitarian, historical and senselss emotional reasons. All of which could be classified as utilitarian inhumane.

But even me I say you have to be completely dumnb not to see that what is being done is all out war criminality of the highest degree with US assistance. And others' (that know to hide it better)

[Bereta_Eder]

The greek 20 something guy that was killed by the paliestinians in israel, his father has cured thousands of people from neurological brain problems.


I know that israel is cutting edge in tech. that's why people like that greek scienstist go there. (that have no relation with jewdaism)


because Israel can discover the cure for cancer. (just pressing a point)


Palestine will never do. It's just a bunch of certain religion fcks that we have story with (I am not racist just displaying the rational)



EVEN me, i say US is responsible for vast war crimes (and others too)


However what happned with the assiassination of the greek gy, it vindicated by point of view. The vast uselfeulness of Israel. That doesn't of course justify the massacre that is going on that destroys any ressemblance of decensy

[Bereta_Eder]

For some reason we should accept the fact that US arms are responsible for killing thousands of children.

Why?

Again.

we are not the pure socialists of the '80s that we supported palestinians 110% .


When I see erdogan wantint o become the muslim king on the back of palestinians and various other things, I do realize that teh "national interests" (another word for mass murder) of Greece are with Israel.


But morality is with palestine. And I always choose morality

[giblets]

are you nuts? when has the other side ever passed up an opportunity to kill Israelis?

When they took hostages...