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**Berzerker** · January 31, 2024, 21:43

I assume she got advice on nutrition and diet, what did her docs tell her? I've read stories of diabetics II who reversed their condition with diet and lifestyle. The problem is balancing the meds with the fasting period during the process. Some people advise starting with 12-14 hours and build up to 18-20. I'd be surprised if calorie restriction and avoiding food 18 hours a day would be bad for diabetes or the heart. The constant influx of sugar is the enemy.

**Berzerker** · February 3, 2024, 03:46

Did I say I was stating facts? I asked what her docs told her and yes I've heard of people reversing their diabetes with lifestyle changes. I said the key to fasting with diabetes was regulating sugar levels during fasts. If I said swimming was healthy you'd point to drownings just to argue.

**Berzerker** · February 3, 2024, 04:42

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-...ious%20side%20 effects%20were%20observed

"In a new clinical trial, an NIH-funded research team led by Dr. Krista Varady from the University of Illinois Chicago compared fasting and calorie restriction for weight loss and blood-sugar reduction. They recruited 75 people with obesity and type 2 diabetes. Of these, 70 were either Hispanic or non-Hispanic Black—two groups in the U.S. with an especially high prevalence of diabetes. The participants were randomly assigned to one of three diet groups for six months.

The fasting group could eat anything they wanted, but only between the hours of noon and 8 pm. The second group worked with a dietitian to reduce their calories by 25% of the amount needed to maintain their weight. A control group did not change their diet at all. All groups received education on healthy food choices and monitored their blood glucose closely during the study. The results were published on October 27, 2023, in JAMA Network Open.

After six months, participants in the fasting group lost an average of 3.6% percent of their body weight compared to those in the control group. In comparison, people in the calorie-restriction group did not lose a significant amount of weight compared to the control group.

Both groups had similarly healthy decreases in their average blood glucose levels. Both also had reductions in waist circumference. No serious side effects, including time outside of a safe blood glucose range, were seen in either treatment group. People in the fasting group reported that their diet was easier to adhere to than calorie restriction.

“Our study shows that time-restricted eating might be an effective alternative to traditional dieting for people who can’t do the traditional diet or are burned out on it,” Varady says. “For many people trying to lose weight, counting time is easier than counting calories.”

Some medications used to treat type 2 diabetes need adjustment for time-restricted eating. Therefore, people considering intermittent fasting should speak with a doctor before changing their eating pattern."

hey look at that, the NIH made the same recommendation I made: fact

And I'd go further, intermittent fasting over years will retrain the body to make better use of the fuel it gets. Are raw unprocessed foods better than processed foods? Yes, they make the body work. If machines process the food out of our food our bodies dont need to work and our insides become fat and sluggish. Constant sugar intakes trying to correct for too much medicine is not good for the body, better to increase fasting time and lower the dosage.

**Berzerker** · February 3, 2024, 05:03

The people responsible for the vaccine rollout advised 2 shots about 4 weeks apart. At the time I wanted to spread the shots out but I did as told and waited the 4 weeks. Later the people in charge told us that was a mistake, the 2nd shot was given too soon after the 1st. The result was the body's response to the 1st shot was still active when the 2nd shot was given and the body didn't have to restart from scratch to deal with the 2nd shot. The same principle is at work with food and how the body turns it into energy. If the body is getting a steady influx of 'quick carbs' it never gets to restart from scratch. Fasting is not bad for diabetes, the drugs are bad. If lifestyle changes like intermittent fasting controlled blood sugar why use the drugs?

**Berzerker** · February 3, 2024, 05:10

"After an intermittent fasting diet intervention, patients achieved complete diabetes remission, defined as an HbA1c (average blood sugar) level of less than 6.5% at least one year after stopping diabetes medication, according to a new study published in the Endocrine Society’s Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism.

Intermittent fasting diets have become popular in recent years as an effective weight loss method. With intermittent fasting, you only eat during a specific window of time. Fasting for a certain number of hours each day or eating just one meal a couple of days a week can help your body burn fat. Research shows intermittent fasting can lower your risk of diabetes and heart disease.

“Type 2 diabetes is not necessarily a permanent, lifelong disease. Diabetes remission is possible if patients lose weight by changing their diet and exercise habits,” said Dongbo Liu, Ph.D., of Hunan Agricultural University in Changsha, China. “Our research shows an intermittent fasting, Chinese Medical Nutrition Therapy (CMNT), can lead to diabetes remission in people with type 2 diabetes, and these findings could have a major impact on the over 537 million adults worldwide who suffer from the disease.”

The researchers conducted a 3-month intermittent fasting diet intervention among 36 people with diabetes and found almost 90% of participants, including those who took blood sugar-lowering agents and insulin, reduced their diabetes medication intake after intermittent fasting. Fifty-five percent of these people experienced diabetes remission, discontinued their diabetes medication and maintained it for at least one year.

The study challenges the conventional view that diabetes remission can only be achieved in those with a shorter diabetes duration (0-6 years). Sixty-five percent of the study participants who achieved diabetes remission had a diabetes duration of more than 6 years (6-11 years)."

https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-a...ype-2-diabetes

**Berzerker** · February 3, 2024, 21:15

Fasting is healthy

STOP ENDANGERING MY WIFE!

My post clearly qualified my advice. I'm surprised you didn't accuse me of endangering the starving children in Africa for suggesting they fast. Here was my qualification:

"he's on meds for blood sugar and fasting translates into low blood sugar so instead he eats processed carbs multiple times thru the day. I wish he'd reduce his dosage and eat 1-2 a day within a short time window. I try to do my eating within 6 hours with 18+ of no food."

Does that refer to intermittent fasting and the issue of regulating blood sugar with diet and medicine? Yes it does, that was my qualification and you ignored it and accused me of endangering your wife by advising diabetics fast without any regard to their blood sugar.

**Berzerker** · February 9, 2024, 02:17

Why was it ill-advised? My example was someone with diabetes who keeps eating carbs during the day when they should be reducing their meds and fasting more. Why did you edit that out of my comment about fasting? I even posted data showing the benefits of fasting for diabetics and I asked what her docs told her because I'm curious if they told her no fasting.

fasting is healthy
not for diabetics with low blood sugar

swimming is healthy
not for people who drown

thx Rabbit

"Nearly three-quarters — 73% — said they used "to feel mellow, calm or relaxed." Forty-four percent used drugs, such as marijuana, as sleep aides.

The same percentage cited drug use as a way to "stop worrying about a problem or forget bad memories." And 40% said they used to cope with depression or anxiety.

Dr. Leslie Walker-Harding, chief academic officer and senior vice president at Seattle Children's Hospital, said that 75% of young people with a substance use disorder also have a mental health condition.

"We know that the two go together," she said.

Now the problem with this is we're told pot causes mental problems. I'm sure it does. But how do we know if the pot is the cause or the effect?

**-Jrabbit** · February 9, 2024, 14:35

Originally posted by Berzerker View Post

Why was it ill-advised? My example was someone with diabetes who keeps eating carbs during the day when they should be reducing their meds and fasting more. Why did you edit that out of my comment about fasting? I even posted data showing the benefits of fasting for diabetics and I asked what her docs told her because I'm curious if they told her no fasting.

fasting is healthy
not for diabetics with low blood sugar

swimming is healthy
not for people who drown

thx Rabbit

1. Ill-advised = oversimplified and lacking context. We can all see that your original post lacked context, and that your "posted data" came a couple days after my original comment.
2. Your attempted analogy comparing fasting to swimming is neither clever nor pertinent.

Pretty odd reaction to a civil apology... but hey, good to know.

**Berzerker** · February 10, 2024, 23:14

But you haven't shown it to be ill-advised. Fasting is healthy, especially for diabetics (oh irony). Thats how people with T-2 diabetes fight and/or reverse the condition. You complained about no proof and now you complain because the proof was posted 2 days later. Well, I wasn't expecting to be accused of endangering your wife. Damned when I dont, damned when I do. You never answered my question, did her docs tell her no fasting?

1) The context was a diabetic who consumes too many easy carbs during the day to counter his medicine. I advise him to reduce his medication and eat fewer times a day so his body has time to rest from the constant sugar spikes.

Obviously the context was balancing fasting with dose reduction and you ignored the context. Why?

2) You dont support your assertions

Apology?

Sunny Hostin of The View traced her roots. Her ancestors include Spanish slave owners. Sunny has advocated for reparations and rightfully and righteously denounced slave owners. Her response was more tempered, basically she said people back then did things. Kinda like how Nancy Pelosi described BLM rioters as people being people doing things.

**Berzerker** · February 11, 2024, 16:16

I dont know that and you wont post the evidence, but I did show that fasting is good for diabetics and you're still calling it bad advice. Fasting is good for everyone. You're citing situations when it is not. Thats a different issue. What did your wife's docs recommend?

"Oh, settle down. I said no such thing. It's all right here -- in your "Anything Goes" thread -- for everyone to read.

You made an ill-advised statement; I presented a solid example showing how wrong it could be.

Berz: Fasting is healthy.
JR: Not for everyone.

Instead of admitting this is a clear exception to the benefits of fasting, your next statement was literally "What did her docs tell her?"

I can assure you, I was not asking for your advice.

You seem pretty sensitive about this one, Berz. But hey, after you triggered me, I guess the least I can do is to apologize for triggering you."

Quite an apology... I dont know why you keep referring to triggering, I'm not in the habit of using emojis but I would have lined up a few lol when you accused me of endangering your wife and patted yourself on the back for saving her.

**EPW** · February 11, 2024, 16:34

I don't have the patience to read your posts. Are you talking about multi day water fasts or intermittent fasts or what?

**EPW** · February 11, 2024, 17:08

Fasting is good for everyone. You're citing situations when it is not.

I find this to be a confusing statement.

**Berzerker** · February 14, 2024, 05:43

JR - "How you interpreted my post as an accusation of endangering my spouse is a mystery. You live hundreds of miles from me. I would never take medical advice from you, not for myself and not for any loved one. I was certainly not going to share "what her doc said" with you.

I'm not even against fasting as a technique. But nothing is 100%. I made that simple point, one I know to be true. That should have been the end of it. A quick Google search reveals several situations where fasting is contraindicated, including pro-fasting peer reviewed studies.

But apparently you feel a need to double down with "Fasting is good for everyone."

Whatever. Perhaps you should consider changing the name of the thread."

You said my advice endangered your wife and patted yourself on the back for putting me in my place. I said fasting was healthy and you brought up your wife as a rebuttal but now you wont tell us what her docs said about fasting. Either you dont know or they said yes, fasting helps retrain the body to effectively use sugar (or something to that effect). If they had specifically warned her no fasting I think you'd be sharing that with us. I described my friend's situation, I didn't say fasting was healthy in every situation. Thats your strawman. Fasting is good for everyone, not if you're starving. Thanks for the revelation. I made the thread for 'anything goes', that includes fasting.

**-Jrabbit** · February 14, 2024, 11:36

dp

**-Jrabbit** · February 14, 2024, 14:03

Dude, it's 2 pages. Everyone can read our posts and can see what we actually said.

JR:

you believe that flirting with a blood sugar crash that might trigger a cardiac event by fasting is an idea worth experimenting with for a heart patient. Weird.'

Berz:

yeah thats what I believe

1. That's insane.
2. I would never share personal medical information on a public internet forum. That's would be insane.
3. There's no strawman, as we're not having an argument.

All I did was point out a perfectly valid exception to your "fasting is healthy" statement. It's really that simple.

I'm done with this topic.

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