Sacred Geometry

[Geronimo]

Lower decks

[Berzerker]

We have a creation myth describing three major disruptions in our solar system before land and life appeared on Earth resulting in debris trails with their original locations identified for us.
I think this is amazing... truly amazing. Thank you Zecharia Sitchin.

The first according to the Enuma Elish was at Uranus (Anu in the myth), the encounter provided Marduk with weapons called "Winds" to battle Tiamat (Genesis says it was God's "Wind" that produced "light"). Uranus is tilted on its side with rings and moons produced after Marduk arrived.

The 2nd debris trail was the Kuiper Belt produced by a planetary scale event involving primarily Saturn. Pluto embodies that disruption and it does lie on Saturn's equatorial plane at or near perihelion along with one or more families of related parent bodies. The asteroids and comets (for the most part) are not left over remnants of the accretion process that produced the planets we see today, nor is there an Oort Cloud of comets on the solar system's periphery. The Oort Cloud was a theory to explain long term comets, but even Oort located the origin of these comets near Jupiter, not as some pre-existing shell surrounding the solar system. Frankly its kinda ridiculous to suggest a 360 degree shell of comets would surround the solar system because of local encounters with Jupiter.

The 3rd debris trail is the asteroid belt, remains of the collisions that produced "heaven and earth". The belt is actually made up of several parent bodies, the myth describes the deployment of several "winds" . The myth says they're roughly equal in size or mass, it uses the metaphor of splitting a flat fish in two. That argues against heaven being the universe and the fact it shows up late in the myth is a disqualifier. Heaven and Earth are not the universe, they were once together as semi-equal components. But the current belt doesn't have much mass and I dont know if any studies exist accounting for the impact craters we see across the inner planets, but if we throw in some of the outer moons and planet 9's entourage I wont be surprised if we find the missing mass. The myth says Marduk ensnared much of Tiamat's 'army' of defenders and scattered the rest leaving Kingu as our Moon staring back at us with evidence of the celestial battle. Heaven was left behind to mark the site of the battle as Marduk's North Wind carried Tiamat's remains off to a new location (here). Thats why our water came from the asteroid belt.

[pchang]

Yes. So amazing as to be an unbelievable retcon.

[N35t0r]

It's good to know that Berz knows more about orbital mechanics than actual astrophysicists. We're all so lucky to have him here.

[Berzerker]

You're not quoting any actual astrophysicists

[Berzerker]

Dont matter who pays them, rebuttals speak for themselves... We're listening

[pchang]

I said the claims were inaccurate and I am an MIT rocket scientist.

[Berzerker]

what claims? you've posted nothing but insults

[Dauphin]

The Wikipedia article, first few paragraphs:

Sitchin's ideas have been resoundingly rejected by scientists, academics, historians (including Sumerologists, Orientalists and Assyriologists) and anthropologists who dismiss his work as pseudoscience and pseudohistory. His work has been criticized for flawed methodology, ignoring archaeological and historical evidence, and mistranslations of ancient texts as well as for incorrect astronomical and scientific claims

Colour me surprised.

[Berzerker]

I'm surprised you trust Wiki... Yes, he made mistakes. So do his critics. I've read some of them, "Sitchiniswrong" is one such site purporting to debunk his theory, specifically Sitchin's claim a cylinder seal VA 243 represents our solar system with the sun in the center. Astronomer EC Krupp argued it was Sagittarius and Jupiter but Sitchin proved him wrong and he conceded. The guy who made the Sitchiniswrong site argued the central star was not the sun because the symbol for the sun god Shamash was different. I explained to him both Genesis and the Enuma Elish claim the sun appeared late in the story after heaven and earth were created. Before that the sun was called Abzu - the primordial freshwater that mixed with Tiamat's saltwater to form the olden gods. The sun produces freshwater, planets at snow lines produce saltwater.

The Abzu and Tiamat are father and mother of the planetary gods, Shamash became the sun after Earth was revealed on the 3rd day and acquired a new sky on the 4th day of creation. The Sumerians would not depict Abzu and Shamash the same way any more than they would depict the moon god Sin as Kingu, the lunar defender of Tiamat before heaven and earth were split in two. By virtue of forming at the snow line, the primordial Earth (Gen 1:2) was about 3x further from the sun and therefore both sun and moon were less luminous. Thats why they came to dominate Earth's sky on the 4th day, the Earth was pushed into a new, closer orbit bringing water with it from the snow line.

Researchers keep trying to import our water from further away but they insist on using Jupiter's alleged migration into the asteroid belt region to cause a bombardment of water bearing asteroids hitting Earth. But the Earth's water is old, it didn't arrive after Jupiter tacked back and forth. The Earth formed surrounded by water. It was covering the world when the lunar cataclysm formed the moon and it was here ~500my before land and life. I do think the outer gas giants have migrated, the Enuma Elish says the divine brothers banded together disturbing Tiamat's destiny and she was located at the asteroid belt. Not coincidentally Jan Oort believed the comets forming his Oort Cloud originated near Jupiter.

But I think the best evidence for Sitchin's theory is planet 9... While current theory is approaching the parameters Sitchin proposed decades ago there is a problem - whatever is out there is both large enough and close enough to drag the planets off the sun's equatorial plane. Some distant object hanging around far beyond the Kuiper Belt didn't do that. This 9th planet must enter the realm of the planets and we just happen to find debris trails on either side of the outer planets. Btw, a debris trail links the Earth to the asteroid belt.

[pchang]

Please look up how the moon was formed.

[Berzerker]

A Mars-sized object they call Theia struck a glancing blow to the proto-Earth about 4.4-4.5 bya, so says the current theory. That event preceded "creation" by ~400my. About 4 bya the Moon underwent a major transformation, the side facing the Earth was plastered by debris from collisions involving the Earth. Those impacts not only unleashed a magma flood forming the face or rabbit staring back at us, they excavated the near side of material replacing some of it with heavier elements creating a lopsided world. The 'dark side of the moon' is lighter highlands, it was spared the wave(s) of debris coming off the Earth and better maintained the proto Moon's original crust. Thats why our Moon is too large for the Earth, it once belonged to a larger planet and these meteorites we keep getting hit by came from the Earth and its impactors 4 bya. A recent study on the Moon's peculiar orbit claims a flurry of large objects headed for Earth about 4 bya tilted its orbit (~5.2 degrees).

This period is called the late heavy bombardment when the planets were... bombarded. Actually the Earth was bombarded, the Moon just happened to be nearby. Researchers thought this was when Jupiter tacked back and forth disrupting the asteroid belt delivering us our water, but then they found out Earth's water was older than 4 byo. They thought the Earth was a Hadean hell with no water until 4-3.9 bya. They were wrong (oh but Sitchin cant be wrong about anything), our water is older so they just changed their theory. Jupiter tacked before the late heavy bombardment. Okay, so what caused the late heavy bombardment lol? Marduk... Material surviving local supernovae arrived in our solar system about a 1/2 billion years after those blasts triggered the nebular collapse eventually forming the sun and planets.

I have a problem(s) with their theory about Jupiter, they argue Jupiter formed before planets closer to the sun thereby disrupting the asteroid belt region, absorbing and disbursing asteroids robbing Mars of building blocks while delivering water bearing asteroids to Earth. The timing is bad. Did Jupiter form before the Earth and Mars? Couldn't be both, the Earth would not have been here to receive the water. So to make that theory work Jupiter had to tack thru the asteroid belt while the Earth already existed. So why was Mars robbed of material? But the main problem with the theory is that the solar system's snow line (where h2o condenses) is at the asteroid belt. Thats where water vapor pushed by the early solar wind froze and the evidence for this is found within the belt today, the inner belt is 'dry' and the outer belt is 'wet'. Planets generally form first where material is densest, the outer gas giants had more space to vacuum but it was less dense requiring more time to gather.

I would expect a planet to form first where material is both dense and rich in volatile gases, thats the asteroid belt. I dont even think Jupiter was as large back then. The collisions at the asteroid belt unleashed a vast cloud of dust and gas and ice and Jupiter was the first in line to sweep up the debris. It was big 4 bya, but it got bigger 3.9 bya.

[Berzerker]

"I said the claims were inaccurate and I am an MIT rocket scientist."

If you wanna become a famous MIT rocket scientist take a close look at the mathematical relationships between Saturn and Pluto

aside from Saturn's rings (equatorial plane) pointing to Pluto at or near perihelion there's a couple more interesting features they have in common

[Geronimo]

Why do you want believe Sitchin is at least partially correct? Nothing that has been discovered arose from Sitchin so far. His ideas appear to lack any predictive power so far. So why waste any of your time with them Berz?

[Berzerker]

I want the truth... and I can handle it

I dont know what discoveries arose from his work, the people making discoveries who are familiar with him may not credit him or the Sumerians. Thats kinda why we see Greeks getting credit for knowledge they got from earlier civilizations. But I can make a short list of 'his predictions'.

1) This world was covered by water before land and life - there was no Hadean Eon
2) This world's water did not form here, he identified the Sun and asteroid belt and he was right on both counts
3) Massive collisions about 4 bya created plate tectonics and life and the Moon has scars from the battle
4) Pluto orbited Saturn
5) Uranus suffered a major disruption lol
6) The solar system is tilted and they think planet 9 is the reason
7) Sitchin said it has a retrograde inclined orbit
8) Planet 9 has an inclined orbit according to researchers (~30 degrees?)
9) Sitchin identified a small number of sources for the asteroid belt

so much more... my god

[BeBMan]

It's good to know that Berz knows more about orbital mechanics than actual astrophysicists. We're all so lucky to have him here.

His usual propaganda lies get no love, so he is trying it the Bannon way, and seeks to "flood the zone with" ermmm stuff

[Berzerker]

Poly is the zone? Case you aint noticed, I dont get any love with my more esoteric interests either

[pchang]

We still converse with you even though we don’t agree with you.

[Dauphin]

I'd still have a beer with you.