defund the military

[Berzerker]

Simple yes or no? Ok. No Biden didn't want this war. That is also what I said in my original post Berz

I dont see "No Biden didn't want this war" in your post. We spent billions to provoke this war, where is this diplomatic effort to prevent it? So tell us, why did Boris show up to kill a peace deal Russia and Ukraine made days earlier? Do you believe that was Joe Biden's effort to prevent a war or provoke one?

[N35t0r]

Boris was sent by his Russian handlers to push for Ukraine's surrender once Russia saw they had no chance to take Kiev, but Zelensky said no.

[Dauphin]

Boris Johnson was (and is) a self-serving narcissist. He would turn up in Ukraine whenever he was under domestic pressures, with no clear reason or agenda. Reading one into anything he did beyond self-service of what would get him into the next news cycles is pointless.

If you want to go down that route thought, he was as likely to be a compromised by Russia money, kompromat or other influences as anything else. Look up his connections and antics with Lebedev when he was foreign secretary. One must ask why he made a Russian oligarch and the son of a senior KGB/SVR officer, a Lord, and why he ditched his security details for secret meetings with the Lebedev family. I am not saying Boris was compromised, but he may have been a 'useful idiot' for Russia. Which rather nullifies a conspiracy that he was pushing to maintain a war with Russia that Russia did not want.

[Berzerker]

Putin sent Boris to kill the peace deal Russia just made with Ukraine?

[N35t0r]

There was no peace deal, just an offer of surrender.

[Berzerker]

and that offer was accepted... and then rejected by Joe Biden. Joe wants this war, something to consider in 2024 for all those lesser evil voters

[Geronimo]

What will this enemy use to call our bluff? I'd like to know how their conventional forces will be immune to our drones, missiles and nukes.

I don't know. How are the nazi/neocon forces immune to Russia's drones, missiles and nukes Berz?

[N35t0r]

I mean, they seem to have a special forcefield that deflects the drones and missiles into hitting cities.

[Dauphin]

Putin sent Boris to kill the peace deal Russia just made with Ukraine?

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I am seriously asking, because that is clearly not what I said.

He would turn up in Ukraine whenever he was under domestic pressures, with no clear reason or agenda

[Berzerker]

I don't know. How are the nazi/neocon forces immune to Russia's drones, missiles and nukes Berz?

Yup, you dont know. They're not immune, that was the point.

[Berzerker]

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I am seriously asking, because that is clearly not what I said.

He would turn up in Ukraine whenever he was under domestic pressures, with no clear reason or agenda

here's what you said:

"he was as likely to be a compromised by Russia money, kompromat or other influences as anything else. Look up his connections and antics with Lebedev when he was foreign secretary. One must ask why he made a Russian oligarch and the son of a senior KGB/SVR officer, a Lord, and why he ditched his security details for secret meetings with the Lebedev family. I am not saying Boris was compromised, but he may have been a 'useful idiot' for Russia. Which rather nullifies a conspiracy that he was pushing to maintain a war with Russia that Russia did not want."

Looks like another Russiagate conspiracy

So Boris was feeling unimportant and needed luv and he showed up in Ukraine to urge Zelensky to violate a peace deal Joe supported? Did Joe object? I remember these people told us Russia's withdrawal from Kiev was compelled by Ukrainian defenses when in reality they had made peace. Naturally we in the west dont hear about things like that until much later, democracy in the shadows...

[N35t0r]

Why do you insist about a peace deal that never was? Usually when two sides in a war sign a peace deal, they stop shooting at each other. That never happened. There was no peace deal.

[Berzerker]

Russia withdrew its army from Kiev and western propaganda not only buried news of the deal they claimed Russia was driven back by a Ukrainian counter attack. If there was no deal why did Boris show up? Oh yeah, he's a narcissist and Joe wanted peace but Boris made Joe choose war.

[Geronimo]

Yup, you dont know. They're not immune, that was the point.

If that "they're not immune" was the point who was claiming that any state or country anywhere in any hypothetical or historical context in this thread would in fact be immune to anything?

You claimed it would be a good idea for the US to ditch all military except nukes/delivery systems, drones and missiles. This was pointed out to be stupid. You asked why and claimed that nukes are a proven deterrent. I suggested that since nukes, drones and missiles have failed to prevent Nazi attackers from forcing a huge war on Russians and genociding Russians that it would seem that drones, missiles and nukes are ineffective as a deterrent (or perhaps you are wrong that war was forced on Russia...hmmm).

Now you say the whole point is that nobody is immune to nukes, missiles and drones? Fine we all agree that nobody is immune to anything and so eliminating conventional weapons would be reckless and stupid.

[Geronimo]

Why do you insist about a peace deal that never was? Usually when two sides in a war sign a peace deal, they stop shooting at each other. That never happened. There was no peace deal.

I think Berz means this:

https://nypost.com/2022/04/02/pope-francis-hints-at-kyiv-visit-ukraine-evacuations-continue/

​​​​​​I wonder if Berz understands the enormous gulf between a treaty and a treaty draft?

[N35t0r]

He said that the so called peace treaty had been signed before Russia withdrew from kiev, and those negotiations broke down after, when all of Russia's war crimes came to light.

At that point, signing anything with Russia that didn't involve them getting out of Ukraine would have not succeeded.

[Berzerker]

well then Boris didn't need to show up

[N35t0r]

It was a nice show of support that gave him a nice approval boost back in the UK. IIRC he was the first head of state to go, that does send a message to Ukrainians that they are not alone and improves morale.

[giblets]

Nuclear weapons are too expensive to maintain. We should design a virus that will kill 99.9% of humanity if released and use that as a deterrent.

[pchang]

And while we’re at it, design the virus to target Russian DNA!

[Berzerker]

that would be the next logical step

[Berzerker]

If that "they're not immune" was the point who was claiming that any state or country anywhere in any hypothetical or historical context in this thread would in fact be immune to anything?

You claimed it would be a good idea for the US to ditch all military except nukes/delivery systems, drones and missiles. This was pointed out to be stupid. You asked why and claimed that nukes are a proven deterrent. I suggested that since nukes, drones and missiles have failed to prevent Nazi attackers from forcing a huge war on Russians and genociding Russians that it would seem that drones, missiles and nukes are ineffective as a deterrent (or perhaps you are wrong that war was forced on Russia...hmmm).

Now you say the whole point is that nobody is immune to nukes, missiles and drones? Fine we all agree that nobody is immune to anything and so eliminating conventional weapons would be reckless and stupid.

You said a conventional force will invade us if all we have are drones, missiles and nukes. You said they will call our bluff. It aint a bluff, its our only option. So I asked how that conventional force will be immune to our defenses and you didn't know. Instead you wandered off to another illogical analogy. The war was forced on the people of the Donbas, Russia helped defend them from the Nazis. If Nato+Ukraine had invaded Russia in 2014 and Russia lacked the military might to stop the invasion they would have used nukes and we would have known that and not invaded. We dont need the army and navy to have a deterrent, we need them to 'police' the world.

[Berzerker]

I wonder if Berz understands the enormous gulf between a treaty and a treaty draft?

Maybe you can explain it. Did Russia retreat from Kiev because of a treaty or a treaty draft and what is the difference?

[-Jrabbit]

Russia retreated because they were getting their asses kicked and their supply lines had failed.
And they never reached Kiev, so there was no "retreat from Kiev."

[Geronimo]

Maybe you can explain it. Did Russia retreat from Kiev because of a treaty or a treaty draft and what is the difference?

They retreated to avoid encirclement and total defeat. Not coincidentally the circumstances that made that outcome possible also led to the draft treaties being prepared. They never stopped pushing in the south. So zero evidence of a treaty signing or of treaty implementation. Boris showed up to do whatever it was he was going to do. The evil neocons in Washington wouldn't have entrusted Boris with anything important would they?

Furthermore if treaty drafts are enough to make the signing parties implement the treaty why would anyone sign them?