the real pogroms

[Bereta_Eder]

i personally find it fascinating how the free body image and sex and all that stuff from the greeks and the romans would become squashed by jewish morality?

like that was a vast cultural shift. how did that come about?


if you go to japan where they are still animists and believe like that everything has a soul and is a god, like the water or a flower etc and they are not at all influnced by judeochristian morality, they are all naked dancing around. like germans

[Bereta_Eder]

there is one musem where you can see that transistion for grecoroman to christian civ in front of your eyes and that is the byzantine mjusem in thessaloniki. you start to see how the roman empire started to become christian, you see the marble sings change, the books change, the sings, change... gradually

if you're greek (or maybe orthodox) and visit the acropolis musem in athens you are STRUCK by the similarities,

------

there are small plaqus made of copper that depict what you want the saints ti heal you from. a copper small plaque with the iamge of a head. of a foot, of a hand, of a chest (heart disease) etc

you place those very carefully at icons of sdaints, of jesus etc


it is very VERY widespread go to a greek church anywhere, you'll see that. your dad has a heart disease, you make a ΤΑΜΑ a plead to god that has this form i discrebed.

imagine my shock when visitng the acropolis musem when i saw small MARBLE plaques of images of feet, hands, chests, heads deposited to temples of athena, poseidon, zeus


if i didn't have a heart attack then, I will never have it.

this screamed one line contunuation like nothing I have ever seen in my life

[Bereta_Eder]

this was flagged as spam because i tripple edited it

there is one musem where you can see that transistion for grecoroman to christian civ in front of your eyes and that is the byzantine mjusem in thessaloniki. you start to see how the roman empire started to become christian, you see the marble sings change, the books change, the sings, change... gradually

if you're greek (or maybe orthodox) and visit the acropolis musem in athens you are STRUCK by the similarities,





there are small plaqus made of copper that depict what you want the saints ti heal you from. a copper small plaque with the iamge of a head. of a foot, of a hand, of a chest (heart disease) etc

you place those very carefully at icons of sdaints, of jesus etc


it is very VERY widespread go to a greek church anywhere, you'll see that. your dad has a heart disease, you make a ΤΑΜΑ a plead to god that has this form i discrebed.

imagine my shock when visitng the acropolis musem when i saw small MARBLE plaques of images of feet, hands, chests, heads deposited to temples of athena, poseidon, zeus


if i didn't have a heart attack then, I will never have it.

this screamed one line contunuation like nothing I have ever seen in my life

[Bereta_Eder]

it is very interesting to see all that from an historical perspective.

do you also have the expression knock on wood?

this derives from greece when people would knock on wood to make the νεραιδες (something like ferries/nymphs) leave,

they were said to inhabit wooden things.

and here we are 2500 years later knocking on wood, we don't even know why.

religion and religious believes is probably one of the most durable things in human history, I think so

and many many things preceded ancient greece of course

I cannot NOT be struck by the similarities of yawweh a STORM god and zeus/ or how zeus and the christian god are depicted.
this all screems connection and continutaion


very interesting stuff

[Bereta_Eder]

on a more personal note a soviet academic said a bit ironcially of the greeks that we are the only civ that was able to combine something so extrpolarity different like ancient grecoroman world and christianity.

that these things were so different and so in war for milenia that it is ironic that a country has its foundations on both. it is like a freak of nature, an abnormality

and fore sure christians (greeks/romans/othjers asssorted) laid an all out attack on anything ancient (temples, statues etc) on all fronts on art, scultpure, architectu,re literature, morality

and yet some things permeate all these milenia and nothing is a parthenogenisis (not even jesus)

[Berzerker]

it is an allegory of plato's ideal state (athens) and how that led it to win

it allegendly took palce in the 9000 BC and biulds on even more ancient lore


besides the first premordial gods of the meopotamians (the epic of giramesh) was when men first begun to create civilization that came along agriculture and the start of sedetary life that gave birth to cities

that was when gods were worshiped in high altars. some say cities were made in order to worshipo gods

in any case concepts like floods, people made of mud/clay/dirt 3 days and god rising, all of that existed long long before christianity and slightly long before the greek dodecathean


but yeah the origin of god is to be found in mesopotamia and the dawn of civ as was accomplished by cities as was accimploshed by agriculture and the diversification of labor in the fertile crescent

Not to nitpick but its relevant, Solon got the story around 600 bc and Plato relayed it 300? years later, so it would be 9600 bc. That coincides with the end of the Younger Dryas cold period and Gobekli Tepe. Karahan Tepe looks even more important, they unearthed a "pillar" room with 11 pillars, 1 of which may represent the Sun, and a face jutting out from a wall staring between the pillars, 5 to the right and 6 to the left. This symbolism is consistent with much later Mesopotamian religion, the Enuma Elish and cylinder seal VA 243. They hit the motherlode in SE Turkey in the foothills of Noah's mountain where the 2 rivers begin.

At some point we were altogether in Africa and one small specific population of anatomically modern humans with a shared culture, mythology, etc began expanding. But there seems to be more recent diffusions of knowledge and culture, the fact pyramid building became popular all of a sudden in both the old and new worlds cant be just a coincidence. The original people would have shared certain beliefs about the sky and stepped pyramids could symbolize their cosmology, Chichen Itza represents the 9 Lords of the Night and the similarities between Hindu and Mayan temple construction are amazing.

But the people who supposedly made that migration weren't building pyramids along the way. They still shared the cosmology of a layered sky, 'heaven', or tiers but pyramids weren't how they expressed their beliefs. So why travel 100,000 years half way around the world and start building pyramids at the same time people did in Africa. Very strange. I'd expect to see pyramids dotting their migration path. Maybe not, pyramids are labor intensive and hunter gatherers walking around the Pacific aint got time or manpower to pile stone.

[Berzerker]

The Enuma Elish describes "Nibiru" as the middle, the crossing point. Marduk seized the middle from Tiamat leaving half her carcass as a screen or shield (firmament) in the sky to mark the celestial battle. The face at Karahan divides the 2 groups of pillars by staring right down the middle. This division of the sky into 2 groups appears in Utah and Cusco with a 'creator' occupying the middle.

[Berzerker]

the jewish god was not one god, he had parents and siblings.

and sons and a wife/wives

[Bereta_Eder]

marduk's fight with tiamat is indeed primordial and prepresents the sea/chaos and... women. In this we have to bow down to the wisdom of our for fathers (there's an ancient phrase Pyr Gyni kai Thalassa - fire woman and the sea - but that is another tale)

but yeah tiamat represents the threatening chaos that the hero has to tame.

its transitaration today is saint george and the snake or dragon (in greek saint george battles the dragon but it is depicted as a snake with wings)

the primordial waterly chaos. from which we emerged


because even in the fertile crescent, cities dodn't evolve in where it was abudant to get food through forragng. there had to be a sort of difficulty in order to make effort to tame the land.
and the land you tamed was usually marshes, that gave, after being properly currated and drained, quite affluent crops.

of course we might all have a common origin (althoug bare in mind these all happened before history, meaning before the written accounts./before the invention of written language)

however what is interesting is that all of these can be pipointed where the first cities arose. all so called "common" religious mythology steams from the place where civ (as in cities) arose

and some motives repeat themselves/ the floods/ the taming of sea/woman (sorry woke people - it's the patriartchy's fault) and chaos

[Bereta_Eder]

I don't know and haven't studied the religions of the new world though so I can't tell if there is a connection there as well

[ZEE]

Why must they "represent" anything... this goes to Berz too.

Maybe Marduk really did fight Tiamat. Maybe Plato was right about the Demiurge, although I agree moar with the Gnostic adaptations, to a degree. Gnostics are actually idiots that have it backwards.

[Berzerker]

and sons and a wife/wives

I forgot... Let us make man in our image, so they were made male and female. Now I dont wanna be a stickler for definitions but if male and female are in god's image then "us" included at least 1 goddess

[Berzerker]

and it did in the Sumerian versions of man's creation

[Bereta_Eder]

in order for marduk to fight tiamat they must have existed and noone belives they have.

these are manifestations of the human mind on the very beggining of history and urbanization

of course people believe whatever they want. they are free to do so!

but the point is to pinpoint all the commonalities in religion.

the jews were not the first to "think up" a one and only god. actually they didn't have one and onkly god at first.


also greek mythology has borrowed heavily from mesopotamian tales

the tale that zeus' head opened up and forth came athena is not original. there is an odler mesopotamian tale that says pretty much the same thing of genisis


jesus being born of a virgin is not original nor is the 3 days to resurrection, there are many "bibles" that were forbidden by the fathers of the church to be publically distributed. paul probably re-wrote the whole "character" of christ. romans didn't crucify just anyone, you have to be a violent protestor of the roman order to merit such an inuman treatemnt and jesus most probably was as he was anti jewish as well.

there are many documents that one can look at and see the historical truth

that does not exclude the existance of god hisheritself though. not at all.

but shedding historical light on religious events is very interesting.

everyone's saying cheeky zeus had half of the planet impregnated yet yahweh's genitals were on full display too in early depicitons of him. and he did have sex and bore children etc etc

what we know as christinaity today is what some fols want us to beleive as religion, it is not what happened

[Bereta_Eder]

but zee said something itneresting that I didn't know
that plato talked about the Δημιουργός or the creator (or demiurg?!)
I looked it up - an artisan that makes the physical world.
if we take the bible at its original greek language the word poet means exactly that the creator
both creator and poet are used in the holy scriptures to describe god.
must be just one more indication of the heavy influence of greek thought on early christians