Politics Thread

[Berzerker]

He's the state CEO with prisons full of people... are deportations human trafficking?

[-Jrabbit]

Thanks for repeating the question.

[Ming]

He's the state CEO with prisons full of people... ​are deportations human trafficking?

Gee... deportation is sending illegals back where they come from, and by definition, ANOTHER COUNTRY.
Last time I checked, Texas is one of the United States, and not a sovereign nation.

[Berzerker]

I dont think deportation requires a ticket to wherever they came from, just expulsion

If US law doesn't allow Texas to deport people back across the border then we'll find out if it allows deporting them to other states. I think Congress will be in charge of making that decision given the interstate implications.

[Ming]

To another country... Last time I checked, California, Illinois, and New York are all part of the same country as Texas.

[Berzerker]

the word means to expel, Australia and Georgia(?) were founded by citizens deported by Britain

[Geronimo]

I see in the Chicago Tribune that Texas Gov. Greg Abbott sent an airplane full of 355 (!!) migrants to Rockford IL's airport since he needs permission to use O'Hare.
And to work around similar limiations in New York, he sent his latest fleet of buses to New Jersey, where 397 migrants were dropped off in at least 4 different cities.

I understand that border security is a real issue, but this is clearly abusive, ongoing and political, using actual humans as pawns.

Serious question: What is it that prevents Gov. Greg Abbott from being arrested for human trafficking?

How are these governors any more meaningfully making pawns of these people than Biden does? What does the it even mean to make political pawns of people and how is it bad from the pawn's point of view in general?

[-Jrabbit]

Comparative whataboutism with a dash of glib sophistry does not address the question.
And Biden is not shipping migrants by the hundreds to sanctuary cities as an act of political theater.

[Geronimo]

I'm sorry in concrete terms how is it bad from the pawns vantage? If we're going condemn the responsible governors let's do so from a meaningful angle of attack. For instance why not quote from their extensive record of condemning any social welfare of any kind for these illegally immigrating desperate families with kids while being perfectly happy to spend tax payer money on public transportation benefits (including air fare!) for these families purely for interstate zero sum local benefit at the expense of the destinations. Reality is using people as pawns with incentives in no way makes victims of the "pawns' and even if it somehow does, Democrats constantly use people as such "pawns" in literally everything. There's"whataboutism" and there's standards of convenience. It's essentially to call out apparent standards of convenience.

[Ming]

the word means to expel, Australia and Georgia(?) were founded by citizens deported by Britain

Yep... Britain deported them out of their country to another country. Thanks for the example.

[Berzerker]

neither was a country but they deported British citizens so it doesn't matter where people are deported

[Berzerker]

Harvard president resigned, people angered by her legalese over campus protests found plagiarism in her background. She was already headed out the door I'm sure, megadonors canceled her. She's black so its becoming an all out woke food fight filled with charges of racism, anti-semitism, genocide, sexism, with a side of affirmative action.

[Berzerker]

Remember when Trump said Epstein likes 'em young? Epstein said the same thing about Bill Clinton.

so sez the Epstein files

[Berzerker]

Alan Dershowitz was accused of sex with minors

this might need a separate thread

wow, Dershowitz played a big role in negotiating a slap on the wrist for Epstein when he got caught, the deal also protected Epstein's co-conspirators - like Dershowitz

[Berzerker]

Remember when Trump said Epstein likes 'em young? Epstein said the same thing about Bill Clinton.

so sez the Epstein files

It remains to be seen what Bill liked about the young 'ens, Epstein's girls gave massages too

[EPW]

[Geronimo]

<DP>

[Geronimo]

("DEMS ARE JUST AS BAD AS REPUBLICANS" meme

I feel as if I remain some kind of USA person and quite often I don't see Democrats offering superior value to Republicans on a vast array of issues. In fact the only reason Biden is likely to get my vote in 2024 is because Trump is likely to get the Republican nomination or almost certainly a candidate that will not commit to helping Ukraine defend itself.

Some areas where I feel Dems are managing to be even worse than Republicans

• size of Federal Government as a percentage of the entire national economy - Dems reliably manage to outdo Republicans on bloating the government even as compared to profligate spenders like Trump. They seem to think the bigger the Federal government becomes the more benefit voters will enjoy.
• ​Restrictions on personal freedom. The only freedoms that Dems seem to more zealously protect are reproductive freedoms and recreational drug usage. seemingly everywhere else Dems on the whole advocate less respect for individual freedom. (for the record, I'm mostly with the Dems on recreational drug regulation and on preserving every woman's absolute right to a chance to escape from every pregnancy post conception
• Border management. I'm appalled that nearly every decision Dems make on border control serves to make difficult border management even more difficult. Although that said I'm with Dems more than Republicans on allowing massive increases in legal immigration for immigrants with employers waiting to hire them and a quick path to citizenship for all of these.
• Democrats are much worse at recognition of the values of the interests of individuals over the interests of a group. The individuals have rights and feelings and worth. The groups they may belong to however, apart from the individuals that compose them, do not. Democrats constantly speak of zero sum transactions between groups and pursuing social equity by treating people as constituents of competing groups rather than as individuals.
• Democrats favor a living constitution in which judges make the constitution say whatever is necessary to meet their political goals by handing down decisions that essentially rewrite the written constitution by wishful thinking at the bench. I find that entire approach to the concept of law loathsome ethically and dangerous from a practical point of view. What was lost in the uproar over Roe v Wade with Dems was the absence of anything resembling written support for their stance in the constitution.

There's a few things I like Dems best for that I'll throw a couple points below for:

• gun control (although I think the second amendment must be repealed to really attack the problem).
• I like their attitudes better on environmental issues but they are perfectly capable of supporting environmental legislation that perversely worsens environmental outcomes by failing to account for how markets will respond to the proposed regulations. NIMBY environmental BS in wealthy countries just tends to massively increase overall environmental harm by outsourcing it to places where the hidden costs are as bad as several times worse in many ways. If Dems got more cautious about avoiding such outcomes and less knee-jerk in environmental regulation I might actual favor them there as well. As it is, their kneejerk attitudes also keep them sadly vying with Republicans for the anti Science crown which the Republicans seem so eager to earn on opposing the teaching of human origins and a related issues along with a new sad anti-vaccination bias they have adopted.
• Health care. I know I said bloating government is a terrible problem but one of the things the current hybrid public/ private healthcare system in the US does worst of all is control costs. It wouldn't surprise me at all if single payer actually dramatically reduced healthcare expenditure as a fraction of the economy.