Politics Thread

[Ming]

Only Berz picks "wisely" the invader of another country, whose troops killed and raped the people he claims he was defending.
All in a land grab... and it wasn't the first time either. It was Putin's second attempt to steal land from Ukraine.
But Putin is Berz's hero. Go figure.
But we all know that Berz will blame Biden for all the worlds problems, while ignoring dictators who invade other countries

[Berzerker]

Biden loves this war and he desperately wants it to continue

cantcha tell?

[Ming]

As usual, you just say something that you either made up or saw in some internet video. You never prove anything, just sprout whatever the internet tells you to.
But keep supporting a ruthless dictator who kills and rapes people he claims he's defending. We expect it from you.

[Berzerker]

If you are talking about putin, then he didn't try such.


Totally different case - hamas uses civilians as shields.


Pure BS - it is documented very well that it was putin that killed the wast amount of civilians in the russian occupied areas.


That is quite easy - noone want to support the Moscow nazies except some craisies.


Uhmn, that has nothing with democracy to do - trump apparently did criminal things, some judges made a decision and poor trump isn't allowed to take part in the election - other people has experienced the same when they did criminal things.

Yes he did, he supported Minsk I&II and offered deals in late '21 and then again in early '22 after advancing on Kiev

Amnesty Intl said Ukraine was using human shields. They'd move weapons into a town, launch an attack and run before the Russian counter attack hit the town.
Oh look, Hamas is using human shields - BOMB THEM.

Documentation lol. get outta here, I've seen how the Banderites feel about ethnic Russians, their seething hatred. Putin has no reason to kill people begging him to help fend off these fanatics for 8 years.

Thats easy, Nazis are killing Ukrainians and you want to arm the Nazis. Never forget? Never happened. Y'all have disappeared a few million people in the Donbas.

Trump wasn't convicted of a crime

[Berzerker]

If Hamas has tunnels to hide in whose above ground getting bombed?

[BeBMan]

Colorado Supreme Court kicks Trump off ballot

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67768873

I guess the US Supreme Court will determine if this stands or not - but for now:

[Dauphin]

Trump wasn't convicted of a crime

A court found as a matter of fact that he was engaged in insurrection. A decision expressly upheld by the Colorado Supreme Court.

Feel free to read the judgment.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Opinions/2023/23SA300.pdf

Page 96 onwards.

[pchang]

Similarly for business fraud.

[Ming]

And don't forget Sexual Assault

[Dauphin]

It's a long list for sure.

In respect of eligibility for office, a criminal conviction or a civil liability in relation to an offence isn't actually the bar. The bar is meeting the eligibility requirements to run for office. Which includes things like citizenship, age, residency and not having been involved in an insurrection.

[Berzerker]

California is looking into deballoting Trump. Wouldn't it be something if a dozen or so blue states removed him from the ballot and he still won. That would be funny. Independents would flock to him. But I dont see why Colorado's logic doesn't apply to the rest of the nation. Unfortunately the SCOTUS will reverse the decision and spare us the sight of "democrats" removing the opposition from their ballots lol. Woke but not self aware.

Insurrection - A rising against civil or political authority; the open and active opposition of a number of persons to the execution of law in a city or state. It is equivalent to SEDITION, except that sedition expresses a less extensive rising of citizens. It differs from REBELLION, for the latter expresses a revolt, or an attempt to overthrow the government, to establish a different one, or to place the country under another jurisdiction.

500+ BLM riots before the election doesn't qualify but 1 MAGA riot after does? The definition of rebellion comes closer except for the absence of arms and organization and Trump's adherence to process.

(“Insurrection is distinguished from rout, riot, and offenses connected with mob violence by the fact that, in insurrection, there is an organized and armed uprising against authority or operations of government, while crimes growing out of mob violence, however serious they may be and however numerous the participants, are simply unlawful acts in disturbance of the peace which do not threaten the stability of the government or the existence of political society.”)

The only people I've seen on video organizing were Ray Epps and his friends and no one was armed, unless we're including flag poles and bear mace. Vandalizing neighborhood stores and police depts was much more destabilising than Jan 6. BLM's path of destruction will be haunting 100s of cities and towns across the country as capital flees their jurisdiction. Democrats know all about regime change, they just domesticated the tactics.

"for purposes of deciding this case, we need not adopt a single, all-encompassing definition of the word “insurrection.” Rather, it suffices for us to conclude that any definition of “insurrection” for purposes of Section Three would encompass a concerted and public use of force or threat of force by a group of people to hinder or prevent the U.S. government from taking the actions necessary to accomplish a peaceful transfer of power in this country."

Riots hinder government

"The court also found that many in the mob stole objects from the Capitol’s premises or from law enforcement officers to use as weapons, including metal bars from the police barricades and officers’ batons and riot shields and that throughout the day, the mob repeatedly and violently assaulted police officers who were trying to defend the Capitol. Id. at ¶¶ 156–57. The fact that actual and threatened force was used that day cannot reasonably be denied."

Was that the plan? lol Dont bring guns to overthrow the government, grab the cop's clubs.

"Substantial evidence in the record showed that even before the November 2020 general election, President Trump was laying the groundwork for a claim that the election was rigged."

Russia stole the election from Hillary and was trying to steal it from Biden.

"from the approximately 28,000 attendees who passed through these security checkpoints, the Secret Service confiscated hundreds of weapons and other prohibited items, including knives or blades, pepper spray, brass knuckles, tasers, body armor, gas masks, and batons or blunt instruments'

Well gosh darnit Wally, they disarmed the insurrection... I guess the rebels had to use flag poles

"And before he had even concluded his speech, President Trump’s supporters followed his instructions. Id. at ¶ 146. The crowd marched to the Capitol, many carrying 113 Revolutionary War flags and Confederate battle flags; quickly breached the building"

Ray Epps was already down at the building organizing the 1st breach. How long did Ray spend at Trump's speech? Hmm... He sure was an eager beaver to get the 'insurrection' under way. Maybe I missed it in the opinion but they dont mention him orchestrating Trump's insurrection.

"Rather than taking action to end the siege, however, approximately one hour later, at 2:24 p.m., he tweeted, “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”

Was Nancy a co-conspirator? She was in charge of security, not Trump. She didn't need him to defend the capital but she let it happen and people like Ray Epps helped. Ray got a misdemeanor for leading Trump's insurrection, quite telling. Anyway, Trump let it happen too, but not because a riot mattered. MAGA was blowing off steam and the Democrats opened the door and closed the trap. My understanding of the timeline is the breach happened during Trump's speech. He was still talking and may have not known the extent of what was happening because he didn't plan it. By the time he found out people were already inside.

"President Trump’s next public communications were two tweets sent at 2:38 p.m. and 3:13 p.m., encouraging the mob to “remain peaceful” and to “[s]tay peaceful”

So 14 minutes later he told people to be peaceful. Wouldn't the insurrectionist be telling his patriot army to take the capital and kill the enemy?

"Throughout these several hours, President Trump ignored pleas to intervene and instead called on Senators, urging them to help delay the electoral count"

The count was already delayed before Trump finished his speech. Ty Ray Epps. Yes, Trump thought there was funny business and wanted a few swing states to investigate claims of malfeasance. The Congress can investigate too but Trump failed to get the required members to ask the states to recertify. Insurrectionists dont follow legal processes, they dont ask for investigations into accusations of election fraud, and they bring guns. jhc these are judges on a state supreme court. I wonder how these 4 judges feel about our current VP bailing rioters out of jail before the election while running against Trump?

[Jon Miller]

I am OK with banning of the BLM rioters (any of them who were officers of the US and rioters, not protestors (someone telling them to attack a courthouse would also count)) from running for President.

JM

[Berzerker]

Kamala and the Democrats were bailing them out

[Ming]

Typical Berz... Cutting and pasting something he saw on some website. Blaming it all on Ray Epps instead of the person that told people to come, and then march down to the capital, and stop the steal.
As usual, Berz ignores those that are actually responsible and blames somebody that fits his agenda. Like Putin is not to blame for attacking another country... it's all Biden's fault.

[Berzerker]

I was responding to Dauphin's link about the court decision

[-Jrabbit]

Apparently you believe it's not an insurrection because it wasn't violent enough?

[Geronimo]

He believes that snipers shooting innocent people to frame a politician is a "coup" and that any duly appointed or even duly elected leadership that replaced such a framed politician constitutes a part of that "coup". In light of that are you really surprised that his definition of "insurrection" would be subject to his political rhetorical convenience?

[Berzerker]

https://youtu.be/WnMnGn7XgfU

Mike Benz interviewed by Judge Andrew Napolitano about the CIA and State Dept and how they manipulate culture

democracies die in darkness

Today I learned The Scorpions hit song "Winds of Change" was funded by the CIA

BLM was a color revolution

[Berzerker]

Taylor Swift??? Oh nooooo

well, maybe not

[-Jrabbit]

https://youtu.be/WnMnGn7XgfU

Today I learned The Scorpions hit song "Winds of Change" was funded by the CIA

No you didn't. As usual, this is a bunch of unproven allegations, laughed off and denied years ago by the actual (German) songwriter, but embraced by Berz and the YouTubeVerse. This one is from several years ago, and it's about a pop song from 1991. This idea was advanced and laughed to the curb several years ago, including by the songwriter, Klaus Meine, who said in 2014:

"The idea came to me in the U.S.S.R. when I was sitting in the Gorky Park Center one summer night, looking at the Moskva River. The song is my personal reappraisal of what has happened in the world in recent years." (Scorps had played a huge concert in Moscow in 1989.)

The song is the subject of the Pineapple Street Studios podcast series Wind of Change, released 11 May 2020, which raises questions regarding the song's origin.Patrick Radden Keefe, the New Yorker author and host of the podcast, investigates the allegation that the song was written by or connected to the Central Intelligence Agency, citing a rumor originating allegedly from inside the agency. In a Sirius XM interview with Eddie Trunk on 13 May 2020, Meine stated "It's a fascinating idea, and it's an entertaining idea, but it's not true at all".

As usual, it's all rumors, allegations, "just asking questions" and amplifying sparse evidence out of context. Even Keefe admits it's all based on a second-hand story from a friend of a friend who formerly worked at the CIA. Conveniently, he does not claim or present any first-hand, factual knowledge or sources.

I'll leave you with this excerpt from a May 2020 interview with Klaus Meine (after the Pineapple Street podcasts). Maybe he can talk some sense into you...

Meine stated about the CIA rumor: "I would be ashamed if I would bring up a story like this. Everybody would say, 'Klaus, no. No way.' Like, a marketing plan, 30 years of 'Wind Of Change'. It's, like, you never would go that far, because I don't know anybody who believes that kind of story.

"I think the success of the 'Wind Of Change' podcast is because people get into this, they're drawn into this kind of scenario," he continued. "It's, like, 'Hmm, it could be true. It could be true. Or maybe not. Maybe yes.' And I think this is what this whole story is about the CIA and the SCORPIONS. And everybody picks it up around the world, and I go, 'God. The New York Times? Jeez. Rolling Stone? Again? Oh, come on.'

"On the other side, of course it's not true at all," he added. "It shows how powerful music can be. If they think this song was like a tool to help to bring down communism — I mean, Jeez." [Laughs]

I'm not saying the CIA doesn't try to influence public opinion; just that this particular theory is goofy and unproven.

[Berzerker]

I dont think he claimed they wrote the song, only that they funded art and culture thru various cut outs or fronts and they funded the song. I dont know if that means grants or promotions or both.

[-Jrabbit]

"Funded the song"??? WTF does that even mean?
We're talking about a highly successful German metal band here. Writing songs is not like funding rebel forces.
I sincerely doubt there would have been any CIA involvement until well after the song was written, recorded, and released. Maybe they paid off some DJs to get it onto the charts; that is much more their style.

[Berzerker]

It means promoting the song, the band, concerts, advertising, propaganda, national endowment for democracy etc.

[Berzerker]

And I even believed the Democrats back in 2016-17 that Trump was a traitorous sell out to Putin. But they're liars so now I have more trust in whistleblowers with knowledge of the subject.

[Ming]

The back peddling continues...
And I love how you call the Democrats liars when Trump and the Repubs lie FAR MORE. They are still claiming they won the election... And Rudy... stepping out of a courtroom a huge loser, claimed again he had evidence they cheated
And now he will get sued again. Sounds like Trump.

[Berzerker]

What backpedaling? Democrats lied to Fisa judges to spy on their political opponents. Trump lied about crowd sizes. Obama and Biden lied about arming terrorists, Trump lied about his wall with Mexico.

[Ming]

The backpedaling when you go called on your CIA conspiracy song BS.
And I love how you don't even bother with the Repub/Trump biggest lie of stolen election with MASSIVE FRAUD but instead say he lied about crowd size and his wall. He lied just about everything.

[Berzerker]

I didn't say the CIA wrote the song

[Berzerker]

“Why are you standing with confederates who betrayed this country? This is what they’re standing with. It’s the spirit of those confederates rather than the Americans who came together after a long and brutal Civil War that was fought to keep the Union together and clearly saw a threat in ex-confederates running for office. So much so they amended the Constitution to prevent those traitors from running for office.” - Mara Gay NYT editorial board member

That was on Morning Joe responding to people who disagree with the Colorado supreme court decision... Apparently that includes the 3 judges appointed by Democrats.

[Ming]

So... your point? I guess you don't think people should have opinions anymore?
Or are opinions OK only if they support your views?

[Berzerker]

you've been griping at me for having opinions, now you're accusing me of thinking people shouldn't have them