Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Berzerker]

Putin's little green men were to establish a frozen conflict that Putin hoped he could leverage to weaken ukraine at minimal cost to Russia.

Putins little green men (actually just Putin himself perhaps since nobody else is permitted to express an original thought on foreign policy) wanted Minsk to get the UA out of Donbas so he could start the special operation with that much more of a head start.

Putin has broken every treaty and agreement with Ukraine. I find it laughable that you conflate him signing a treaty as him accepting, let alone endorsing its terms.

For Putin, treaties are just a weapon to use against lesser gullible powers.

That sounds like our plan... still is our plan. A frozen conflict to bleed Russia. Prighozin just made a video criticizing foreign policy. So Putin spent 8 years defending the Donbas from Kiev to get a head start when he went for Kiev? Wouldn't he invade sooner before Nato armed and trained the Ukrainians and come from Belarus? Are you saying Putin rigged the vote in the Donbas in support of Minsk because the people living there opposed it and wanted to be attacked by Kiev?

[Geronimo]

That sounds like our plan... still is our plan. A frozen conflict to bleed Russia. Prighozin just made a video criticizing foreign policy. So Putin spent 8 years defending the Donbas from Kiev to get a head start when he went for Kiev? Wouldn't he invade sooner before Nato armed and trained the Ukrainians and come from Belarus?

If you think this sounds like a plan that the US would sign up for why do you not countenance Putin pursuing it?

Putin spent 8 years "defending" the Donbas? I suppose the US was defending Iraqis and Afghanis? 14k people died in the Donbas while Putin "defended" it. Satellite documented destruction in the Donbas has only vastly increased since his special operation began. Its absurd to suppose casualties could be anything less now that he is openly "defending" yhem with the entire Russian military and Wagner mercenaries. Mass grave sites post occupation are huge. Where were the mass grave sites for Azov's Nazi genocide of Russian speakers like Zelensky whom the rest of Ukraine voted to lead their country?

why did Putin wait 8 years to invade and not do so sooner? Because the much lesser sanctions inflicted in 2014 did substantial harm to Russia. He wanted time to sanction proof Russia and wait for signs of weak and cowardly leadership in the West. He wanted to wait until he felt the time was right.

Are you saying Putin rigged the vote in the Donbas in support of Minsk because the people living there opposed it and wanted to be attacked by Kiev?

What kind of weak excuse for a troll is this?

Minsk never had anything to do with what Russia planned to actually do. Why would you believe that it would?

If the people in Donbas voted for Minsk I guess that means they wanted the Separatists to be disarmed, the Russians to leave, and for the Donbas to be part of Ukraine. Putin wanted Minsk to be signed so that pressure would be placed on Ukraine to pull the UA out of the entire Donbas and so he could claim that it didn't constrain Russia whatsoever.

If Russia is on record as declaring the Minsk I and Minsk II placed absolutely no constraints or obligations on Russia whatsoever, why don't you believe them? Why do you keep trotting out Russian signatures on Minsk treaties as meaning anything if they say the signatures meant nothing?

[Berzerker]

For the record, often when discussing Ukraine with Berz, or Serb or any other Putin supporter/Putin believer, I will refer to the removal of Viktor Yanukovych, lawfully elected in internationally observed free elections, as a "coup". I do so not because I believe his ouster technically qualifies as a coup, but largely because whether or not it was a coup is totally irrelevant to what Russia would or would not be justified in doing to Ukraine. I generally don't want to get the discussion off on a tangent so I call it coup as well.

Having said all that, it totally was not a coup. Even if I don't think his ouster was a good idea and that the Ukrainians should have tried voting him out, at least once, his removal was perfectly legal.

I didn't get my education about Ukraine or the coup from Putin, I watched a BBC interview with one of the snipers. Whether or not it was a coup is relevant to Ukrainians, especially the people who voted for the man. Of course it was a coup, 100+ people were killed and the leader fled for his life. Dissidents were murdered or silenced while politicians were terrified of Azov and the CIA.

[Berzerker]

If you think this sounds like a plan that the US would sign up for why do you not countenance Putin pursuing it?

Putin spent 8 years "defending" the Donbas? I suppose the US was defending Iraqis and Afghanis? 14k people died in the Donbas while Putin "defended" it. Satellite documented destruction in the Donbas has only vastly increased since his special operation began. Its absurd to suppose casualties could be anything less now that he is openly "defending" yhem with the entire Russian military and Wagner mercenaries. Mass grave sites post occupation are huge. Where were the mass grave sites for Azov's Nazi genocide of Russian speakers like Zelensky whom the rest of Ukraine voted to lead their country?

why did Putin wait 8 years to invade and not do so sooner? Because the much lesser sanctions inflicted in 2014 did substantial harm to Russia. He wanted time to sanction proof Russia and wait for signs of weak and cowardly leadership in the West. He wanted to wait until he felt the time was right.

What kind of weak excuse for a troll is this?

Minsk never had anything to do with what Russia planned to actually do. Why would you believe that it would?

If the people in Donbas voted for Minsk I guess that means they wanted the Separatists to be disarmed, the Russians to leave, and for the Donbas to be part of Ukraine. Putin wanted Minsk to be signed so that pressure would be placed on Ukraine to pull the UA out of the entire Donbas and so he could claim that it didn't constrain Russia whatsoever.

If Russia is on record as declaring the Minsk I and Minsk II placed absolutely no constraints or obligations on Russia whatsoever, why don't you believe them? Why do you keep trotting out Russian signatures on Minsk treaties as meaning anything if they say the signatures meant nothing?

I think its a plan the USA would sign up for because I've listened to US politicians and generals advocate bleeding Russia in Ukraine for years. I dont see a motive for Russia following the same plan in spite of your 'head start' theory. Kiev attacked the Donbas, Russia responded twice militarily to stop Azov's advances and that led to Minsk. So Putin waited until his puppet was out of the White House to invade? Would that make Biden his puppet?

Minsk had nothing to do with Putin's plan to bleed Ukraine? It had everything to do with the US plan to bleed Russia. I think the people of the Donbas wanted Kiev to stop attacking them, that never happened. If it had then Russian help wouldn't be necessary. I dont know how they felt about gun ownership for themselves but given how they were just attacked by Kiev I dont think disarming each other was a priority. I dont keep trotting out Russian signatures on Minsk, we're talking about the people of the Donbas and their wishes.

So, did Putin and his little green men rig the vote in the Donbas to support Minsk because the voters opposed it and wanted Kiev to keep attacking them?

Your Iraqi analogy is flawed (you really need to cut down on the analogies), the US conquered Iraq, Russia helped the Donbas stalemate Kiev's advances eastward.

[Geronimo]

Edit the part about Putin's puppet in the whitehouse out so I can respond. I never even implied that Putin or anybody else regarded any US president as any kind of puppet. Maybe you're conflating me with another poster?

[Geronimo]

I didn't get my education about Ukraine or the coup from Putin, I watched a BBC interview with one of the snipers. Whether or not it was a coup is relevant to Ukrainians, especially the people who voted for the man. Of course it was a coup, 100+ people were killed and the leader fled for his life. Dissidents were murdered or silenced while politicians were terrified of Azov and the CIA.

That is not a coup. Who among the parliamentarians who voted for the ouster have claimed, even once, that they did so out of intimidation? Any at all? Enough to have otherwise kept Viktor in office?

[Serb]

It would be physically impossible for a single missile to destroy an entire battery. The key to the whole thing is the radar station part of the battery (which was not damaged). The individual launchers are fairly easily replaced if destroyed. Even that was not the case here as one of the modules was damaged.

Who said it was a single missile, moron?
According to the MOD reports Kinzhals have destroyed one radar station and five missile launchers.

That was the best reply to the Ukranian creaming pants lie about shooting down Kinzhal with an obsole and outdated American SAM.

[Serb]

You've been f*cked, Plato!
Simple as that!

[Geronimo]

Damn things warm up here and I have to leave. I'll be back later. Nice to see you Serb! Thanks for sparring Berz!

[PLATO]

Who said it was a single missile, moron?
According to the MOD reports Kinzhals have destroyed one radar abttery and five missile launchers.

That was the best reply to the Ukranian creaming pants lie about shooting down Kinzhal with an obsole and outdated American SAM.

Uh...You realize that the damage to one launcher was so minor that it not only is back in action, but the same battery has now downed a Russian bomber? You are laughable in your hysterical devotion to obvious propaganda. Russia's military is hollow and teetering on one of the biggest collapses in history. Al, they have left is to lie to their people how their inferior equipment is so great. Poor Serb

[PLATO]

That is not a coup. Who among the parliamentarians who voted for the ouster have claimed, even once, that they did so out of intimidation? Any at all? Enough to have otherwise kept Viktor in office?

This is the picture of Ukrainian parliamentarians after the vote to oust Yanukovych. See how intimidated they look?

[Berzerker]

Is that the Donbas delegation? I dont know when parliament figured out the right wing massacred people and blamed it on the leader but I suspect it was about the same time they started burying the truth along with the dead.

[PLATO]

You've been f*cked, Plato!
Simple as that!

The only thing simple here is your mind...so susceptible to State propaganda.

[Berzerker]

Okay Berz...I am beginning to wonder about your cognitive abilities here. The former President of Ukraine was removed from office using a Constitutional process by the Parliament elected at the same time he was.

Pretty easy to understand. This makes it NOT a coup.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand. I guess you just keep spouting it in the hopes people won't do the research on what really happened?

So a right wing massacre blamed on the leader who fled for his life is not a coup? Parliament's response is another matter, it was by definition an effect, not the cause. Without the coup it doesn't happen. And I have little faith in "democracy" in the aftermath of a coup toppling the democratically elected leader. The people responsible for the deaths of over 100 people will be very unhappy with any politicians who dont fall in line.

[PLATO]

So a right wing massacre blamed on the leader who fled for his life is not a coup? Parliament's response is another matter, it was by definition an effect, not the cause. Without the coup it doesn't happen. And I have little faith in "democracy" in the aftermath of a coup toppling the democratically elected leader. The people responsible for the deaths of over 100 people will be very unhappy with any politicians who dont fall in line.

There can, by definition, be no coup when Constitutional process is followed. Separation of powers eliminates the "effect" argument. There have been violent protests in many countries where the parliament did not vote to remove a President.

You are so caught up in the theory of conspiracy that you are ignoring the will of the elected representatives of the Ukrainian people.

Let's say that Trump had been convicted at one of his impeachment trials (while, of course, violent protests were burning parts of many American cities.) By your logic, Tennessee (which voted for Trump by a large margin) would be justified in launching artillery attacks on the U.S. Army?

Say out loud some of the things you type...you might hear just how silly they sound.

[BlackCat]

So a right wing massacre blamed on the leader who fled for his life is not a coup?

Which is pure rubbish - it was the president that tried to destroy the protestors and it failed - his actions against the Ukrainian people let the parliament to kick him out of office.

Meh, Plato was faster.

[Serb]

Uh...You realize that the damage to one launcher was so minor that it not only is back in action, but the same battery has now downed a Russian bomber? You are laughable in your hysterical devotion to obvious propaganda. Russia's military is hollow and teetering on one of the biggest collapses in history. Al, they have left is to lie to their people how their inferior equipment is so great. Poor Serb

Your entire battery you have provided to Ukraine has been fuked-up by destroying its radar and five missile launchers connected to it.
A single missile launcher has 4 missiles, if you don't know.

And according to the debris of your Patriot missiles, which are spread over the Kiev and have been shoot by eyewhitnesses - it was the top version of Patriot missiles.

Your whole one billion gift to Ukraine was destroyed, despite it has fired dozens of missiles to protect itself, but failed.

Because your so-called technology (partly copied from the Soviet S-300 after the 1991) is so fkn OBSOLETE!!!

You are nothing, but PR, Hollywood clowns!