witchcraft

[Bereta_Eder]

it's true that greek myths and legends are notorious the world over and blah blah

While it's true that greek mythology and legends are legendary I used to feel a bit bad about the **** covered pagan barbarians of northern western europe because they seemed to have more interesting pagan witchcraft lore.

Not anymore. I found a book that has a chapter on athenian witchcraft and how to invoke the aid of nefarious underworld gods.

Pretty grim and ghoulish and mroe poignant than whatever I heard about the barbarian variant which must have been based entirely on the greek root.
Or people are just crazy all around

[Bereta_Eder]

it's based on black magic plaques unearthed in 2003 somewhere in attika

and meant to destroy business competitors.

I guess whatever gives you the edge

[Bereta_Eder]

also people in sparta are afraid to buld new houses because it is almost certain that when the digging for the foundations is made, ancient ruins will be uncovered and the archeological agency will come and freeze/confiscate their land and they're essentialy going to lose their property. So noone is building or if they do they do so at night (so as to move the findings away from their land and do what their conscience dictates) if the police dont bust them,

And in the rare few cases that this can be pulled off they do it but if what is unerathed is unmovable (and it often is) like a temple or something, there is nothing to be done

the negatives of literally living on top of history

[Bereta_Eder]

other things i found out

_ the roman conquest happened because the southern greek states wanted someone to kick the macedonian overlord out
rome volunteered and indeed defeated the macedonians
then the southern greek states said, hmmm maybe macedonia wasn't so bad and after all they were greek too, whereas those guys are foreign


but by that time rome said "ah, ah! too late now!"

then rome itself became a greek colony but that's another story

[Bereta_Eder]

other tings


sparta was holding dominion over all of greece. it was older more populous vastly more powerful than athens.

but then athens discovered a silver mine close to it and begun mining it with a vengange (through slaves)
instead of paying the diviodent amongst its citizens like usual, the demos discreed to spend the money on building trirems. 200 of them


so when spartans came and burned whatever wasn't bolted down farm wise the athenians could use the triremes to bring wheat from crimea, thus not giving a **** about spartans.
also athens defeated persia on salamis with said triremes even after the persians had burned the whole athens city to the ground, hence becoming legend among the greek world


as time went by athens expanded her dominion, savagly through the aegean islands and suffocated sparta too.

athens used its victory over persia to sell protection to the rest of greekstates and islands. but what actually went on, it was that it was now their oppressor and afflicted vile genocide on at least two islands that rebelled against her

milos and lesbos.
ine lesbos they killed the highest in the hirearchy that voted for the rebelion and took the rest of the less high in the hierarchy as slaves

in milos they massacred every male and took the women as slaves because they were the same blood as spartans (dorians)
what pr!cks

when they exhrted their dominion over milos they said:
look, let us not pretend that the laws will make any difference. laws are relevent when they can be used as arguments between two adversaries of roughly equal power.
thiis is not the case here.
We will refraqin from pretending we are not breaking any laws by offering to "protect" you, if you will also refrain to try and convince us that you wouldn'tr try to backstab us at first opportunity because you are of the same blood as the spartans.

milos replied" freck you clowns
and then athens killed them all

nice

[Bereta_Eder]

athens wasn't so frikin pristine after all

also they feed us lies in school.

that the ancient greeks said that "greek is whoever partakes in greek education and culture"

just one guy said that. they just use it today to lower wage costs


official laws proclaimed that you were a citizen only if you were born of citizen parents and that noone else ever could ever become citizen


you could become a metoikos of course. the next best thing

[Berzerker]

3,000 years before the Greeks the Sumerians worshiped 2 brothers - a sky god (Enlil) and water god (Enki). The Egyptian priest who told Solon about Atlantis said the Greeks were like children not knowing history.

[ZEE]

sup.

[Bereta_Eder]

3,000 years before the Greeks the Sumerians worshiped 2 brothers - a sky god (Enlil) and water god (Enki). The Egyptian priest who told Solon about Atlantis said the Greeks were like children not knowing history.

That's a very well known phrase from plato's timeos and kritias.(Greeks are eternal children - Ελληνες αεί παίδες είσιν)
allegendly there were regular floods/cataclysms (eras) where human history was erased and then written again. And greeks didn't have records of the previous eras, whereas some egyptians did.

Egypt is old. To imagine how old it is, chronologically we are (the people of the present) closer to ancient rome than ancient rome was to the ancient egypt of pharaoes

[Berzerker]

I think it was in Plato's Timeos he told Solon's version of Atlantis from the Egyptian priest. The interesting aspect of the story aside from a description of Atlantis which has driven researchers scanning the world for clues is the timing. According to Plato Atlantis existed way back in time, 9000 years before Solon was told the Egyptian version which was about 600 BC.

Some researchers argue that could have been a mis-translation and the story related events 900 years before instead of going back to the ice age. That led some people to believe Atlantis was about the volcanic destruction of Thera and the resulting tsunami that hit the northern coast of Crete. The timing is off a bit, I think Thera blew up around 1628 BC and Solon was in Egypt in 590 BC. But 140 years aint that far off so its possible, but Thera and Crete just dont match the rest of the story.

So what if Plato, Solon and the priest had it right and Atlantis was destroyed around 9600 BC? Thats ~11,600 years ago

What was happening in the world at that time?

The Younger Dryas is the longest and coldest of several very abrupt climatic changes that took place near the end of the late Pleistocene. Among these abrupt changes in climate were: (1) sudden global warming 14,500 years ago (Fig. 1) that sent the immense Pleistocene ice sheets into rapid retreat, (2) several episodes of climatic warming and cooling between ~14,400 and 12,800 years ago, (3) sudden cooling 12,800 years ago at the beginning of the Younger Dryas, and (4) ~11,500 years ago, abrupt climatic warming of up to 10º C in just a few decades.

It may not have taken a few decades, but regardless, it was fast. Atlantis was at sea level when the ice sheets melted, only hinges survived the meltdown as land under or near the ice sheets rebounded at about the same rates as seas rose. Atlantis was closer to the equator so its under water, albeit any mountains in the region should still be exposed.

Since excavations began in 1995, the site in southeastern Turkey has changed the way archaeologists think about the origins of civilization. Its circular structures, with their elaborately carved stones and distinctive, T-shaped pillars, are more than 12,000 years old—older than the invention of agriculture or even pottery.

The early dates have upended the idea that agriculture led to civilization.

Göbekli Tepe calls that conventional wisdom into question. Klaus Schmidt, a German archaeologist who led excavations at the site, argued before he died in 2014 that it might have worked the other way around: The vast labor force needed to build the enclosures pushed people to develop agriculture as a way of providing predictable food—and perhaps drink—for workers.

One of the mysteries surrounding Gobekli Tepe is it appears to have been buried intentionally. This site

https://www.ancient.eu/article/234/g...-first-temple/

speculates the rise of agriculture and animal domestication had something to do with it, but why bury the site? Maybe a symbolic gesture. But the site was occupied going back to 11,000 BC or even earlier. Thats 13,000 years ago and before the Younger Dryas began 12,800 years ago, so the site was active before and after YD.

A theory for the Younger Dryas is a comet or asteroid (or chunks of debris) impacted the Earth and/or blew up in air bursts setting much of the world on fire causing a 'nuclear winter' and return to a glacial climate. When the effects of the cosmic battle wore off the world warmed up fast submerging civilizations... Like Atlantis.

[Bereta_Eder]

Well if you're looking for the start of civilization, that's easy.
Search for the start of agriculture. And that happened in Mesopotamia (meso=middle, potami=river). and not in (temporarily) present day Turkey.

Atlanis could or could not be a fable. Troy was a fable too, a legend, untill it was discovered (by a team of schliemann who studied the legends and took many things at face value).

Thira (also known as Santorini) is a possibility,
The other possibility is that Atlantis itself was a continent in the middle of the atlantic between euroasia and america, that has been sunk by a massive volcano induced earthquake. Atlantic has some merit because IIRC in the text it says that ATlantis layed beyond Hercules Pillars that some less enlightnened souls call today the gibraltar straits.

[Bereta_Eder]

Agriculture is necessairy for a diversification and specialized assignment of tasks, professions and disciplines.

Unless you call some barbarians banging eachother on the head with clubs and rising one or two stonehedges or circular structures, civilization. It isn't.

If there were previous unrecorded "eras", this I can't comment on... but it would seam strange to not have at least some tangible evidence.

Antrhopology has a linear intepratation of the history of the human and pre-human race. I don't know if there is space there for a "hidden era" or two.

[Berzerker]

Hmm...maybe the site in Turkey was buried for astronomical reasons. The age of Leo was ending, could be thats why they buried it and moved onto a new location with new temples properly aligned to the new constellation. Our ancestors incorporated the sky into their everyday lives, Orion (and his belt) shows up in several cultures as alignments of buildings and towns.

[Uncle Sparky]

[ZEE]

indeed.