Heil Erdogan

[Kidlicious]

Grumbler is basically right.
The more conservative (and islamist oriented) citizens of Turkey seem to be located n the rural regons of Anatolia,
whereas the more western oriented and less religious citizens seem to be in the larger cities, as well as he tourist region on the coast.

The results of the Referendum actually reflect this ...
with regions that voted "No" being at the cast and surrrounding Ankara

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkis...ferendum,_2017

Can you find exit poll information?

[Proteus_MST]

http://www.yenisafak.com/secim-referandum-2017/secim-sonuclari

Those seem to be the latest results ... with all regions of turkey, as well as oveerseas.

[Kidlicious]

http://www.yenisafak.com/secim-refer...ecim-sonuclari

Those seem to be the latest results ... with all regions of turkey, as well as oveerseas.

The vote was close in Istanbul and Ankara, indicating that there maybe significant numbers of educated Islamists.

[Aeson]

This analysis treats Turkey as basically a copy of the conventional Dem POV on the current political divide in America: rurals have no legitimate cause for grievance, or would have their grievances addressed by urbans, but contradict their betters because they are ignorant and unsophisticated. I think this is an inadequate explanation even for America, and seriously doubt whether it is so neatly applicable to Turkey. If nothing else, it doesn't even mention the whole Kurdish issue.

It may not be a complete explanation for the US, but it is a big part of it. White working/middle class has in large part railed against increases in minimum wage, worker protections, social programs to help working class, and labor unions ... basically destroying their own economic prosperity.

They are now (on the left and right) turning on free trade as the "cause" of their misery ... but it's actually been the one saving grace of the economy.

[Kidlicious]

It's much better to be working class in Oklahoma than it is to be in California. You have to be rich to live in California to pay all those taxes, and there are no jobs. I moved, over 10 years now. No way will I go back. blue states

[Elok]

As more than one conservative has said: when well-to-do liberals vote against their economic interests for ideological reasons, it's noble; when poor-to-middling conservatives do it, it's merely stupid.

[Berzerker]

wealthy liberals can afford it

[Aeson]

As more than one conservative has said: when well-to-do liberals vote against their economic interests for ideological reasons, it's noble; when poor-to-middling conservatives do it, it's merely stupid.

Depends on the non-economic interest and how it's approached. It can be neither, either, or both ... on both sides of the aisle. To help the less fortunate is noble for instance, while to screw others is not. In a way that is effective (towards the goal) is intelligent... and in a way that is counterproductive (towards the goal) is not.

In this specific case, when the goal (of the voter) is an economy where working/middle class are prosperous, voting for politicians who are doing their damndest to funnel everything to the rich is of course not effective.

[ricketyclik]

Well yes, anyone not in the top 10% who votes right is basically an eejit.

[Kidlicious]

I love how socialism is assumed to be a good system on this forum.

[BeBMan]

The problem is that Turkey was never truly a democracy; the military kept intervening to prevent the "wrong" candidates from coming to power. Now that's finished, since somebody learned how to tame the soldiers. So, did the majority of Turks ever really want to be a secular/liberal democracy? Do they now? Did they, or do they, know what they want or wanted? I don't know.

True re military coups - but the country was on a much better path both democracy and economy-wise in the early Erdogan years. Back then he was actually reforming the country in a positive way, now he's going backwards fast. I'm wondering what caused his change to an autocrat, might be terrorism or that the EU didn't accept Turkey fast enough (for some good, and some not so good reasons). Or whether he's really into some kind of "bring back Ottoman glory" trip...

[Kidlicious]

Politicians like power BeBro. They will always choose power over the alternative.

[ricketyclik]

I love how socialism is assumed to be a good system on this forum.

Who said anything about socialism?

A healthy curtailment of the excesses of megalomaniacs and making sure your fellow human beings aren't suffering needlessly on the other hand...

As stated, the fact that you don't realise this will be a net benefit for you suggested that you're an eejit.

But then, we already have ample evidence of that.

[Kidlicious]

Who said anything about socialism?

A healthy curtailment of the excesses of megalomaniacs and making sure your fellow human beings aren't suffering needlessly on the other hand...

As stated, the fact that you don't realise this will be a net benefit for you suggested that you're an eejit.

But then, we already have ample evidence of that.

First of all, freedom and independence are of utmost importance, and I don't believe that any socialists understand that. Second, personal responsibility is a prerequisite to both of those. Third, all socialists are authoritarian, conformists and have a kind of mental illness. Finally, no one in Oklahoma suffers needlessly. If you have an illness, or any other reason why you can't be independent you receive aid. That's not socialism. Socialism exists in places like California where they are going bankrupt, taxes are too high, infrastructure is breaking down, they are begging for money, and SJWs are running around in the streets beating people up and starting fights.

No thank you.

[Elok]

Well yes, anyone not in the top 10% who votes right is basically an eejit.

Not necessarily in America, because of our direly limiting two-party system. We've only got two choices, both packaged deals, and for anyone but a complete lockstep drone picking either is going to entail some amount of holding one's nose. Now, the selection of views on the right is such that no part of it is very attractive to me, but I hesitate to assume that everyone who disagrees with me on all of those is simply a fool.