The Moral Arc

[kentonio]

Basically what you're saying is that 'it hasn't happened before so it can't happen now'. Perhaps you're right, Trump has said many contradictory and sometimes downright dishonest things simply in order to win votes. It's worth remembering however that this is one of the most hard right GOP congress/senates in a very long time, with a highly conservative and religious VP who many expect to be instrumental in formulating policy and a supreme court that they are likely to be able to shape in a direction they want.

The hard right have more power right now than they've had for a very long time. I think its very dangerous to assume they won't try their damnest to use that power to achieve goals they've wanted for a very long time.

[Aeson]

SCOTUS has many times in the past reversed positions. Relying on it never happening again is absurd. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ourt_decisions

You wouldn't be worried if hypothetically a majority of those on the court felt it was ok to imprison Christians for practicing their faith?

[Kidlicious]

And LGBTQ people have lived with not having many of the rights they then fought for decades to win. They've also had to experience things like gay people being beaten to death by homophobic police officers or dragged to death behind a truck by homophobic rednecks. Why should they be any less concerned than you?

The chance that any particular homosexual being the victim of a hate crime is low and only a crazy person would think that Trump is going to make it more likely.

Did you let a psychologist hypnotize you?

[DaShi]

I think it's important to differentiate between those who voted FOR Trump, and those who voted R or AGAINST Hillary.

You mean those who are overt racist and those who are just ok with racism.

[kentonio]

The chance that any particular homosexual being the victim of a hate crime is low and only a crazy person would think that Trump is going to make it more likely.

The chance of you being the victim of Islamic terrorism is lower, yet you seem to spend a lot of time whining about them.

Did you let a psychologist hypnotize you?

It's ok, I didn't actually expect things like logic and evidence to actually convince you, it never has before.

[Kidlicious]

Because obviously indicators like a greatly increased risk of suicide are just subjective opinions..

And those who convert to atheism also have a higher rate of suicide, so do people who have been sodomized.

[kentonio]

And those who convert to atheism also have a higher rate of suicide, so do people who have been sodomized.

On the atheist issue, sure that makes perfect sense. Most religions follow the concept of an afterlife and claim that committing suicide threatens a happy peaceful afterlife. It is only logical that people without that dishonest threat hanging over them would be more likely to consider it as an option. So what?

As for 'people who have been sodomized' I have no idea how you would know how many people have been sodomized. Were you using that as a rather crass and ignorant way of describing gay people, or did you actually have another point?

[Kidlicious]

On the atheist issue, sure that makes perfect sense. Most religions follow the concept of an afterlife and claim that committing suicide threatens a happy peaceful afterlife. It is only logical that people without that dishonest threat hanging over them would be more likely to consider it as an option. So what?

As for 'people who have been sodomized' I have no idea how you would know how many people have been sodomized. Were you using that as a rather crass and ignorant way of describing gay people, or did you actually have another point?

Of course you turn to calling religion dishonest and a strawman instead of just gracefully admitting wrong.

[kentonio]

Of course you turn to calling religion dishonest and a strawman instead of just gracefully admitting wrong.

Of course it's dishonest. The atheist reason for persuading someone not to commit suicide involves persuading them that life is meaningful and worth persevering with. The religion version is going 'you won't go to heaven so you'll spent eternity suffering!!'. Yeah, really grown up and kind way to deal with people suffering from depression..

[Jon Miller]

So basically.. 'All these darn gay liberals whining, when there's probably only a 1 in a 100 chance that they'll have their basic human rights rescinded!". Yeah jeez, I wonder why anyone wouldn't be happy about that..

I would say much much less than 1 in 100 (it is going to take more than 1 justice who wants to ban sodomy, and once sodomy is banned it is going to take the executive branch/law enforcement having a desire to actively prosecute... and then there is duration to consider). While for African Americans it is near 1 in 1 (there is active support from law enforcement, some support from the courts and strong support from the new executive) and for Muslims/Hispanics it is probably 1 in 10 or so (here also there is active support from law enforcement, although I think the courts are less supportive).

JM

[Jon Miller]

Law enforcement has, almost entirely, not been interested in prosecuting sodomy laws in the past and are even less interested in prosecuting sodomy laws now.

JM

[Kidlicious]

Of course it's dishonest. The atheist reason for persuading someone not to commit suicide involves persuading them that life is meaningful and worth persevering with. The religion version is going 'you won't go to heaven so you'll spent eternity suffering!!'. Yeah, really grown up and kind way to deal with people suffering from depression..

Since that's not what Christianity is about that makes you dishonest. I'm sure that it has been explained to you many times.

[Jon Miller]

SCOTUS has many times in the past reversed positions. Relying on it never happening again is absurd. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ourt_decisions

You wouldn't be worried if hypothetically a majority of those on the court felt it was ok to imprison Christians for practicing their faith?

Today? I wouldn't be worried about my personal safety because there is no chance that 99.9% of police officers or the executive would implement such an order.

I would be worried about my fellow humans and God seekers (Muslims) though, as that is the case I expect such a rule to be implemented in and I could believe that the executive and police would implement such an order.

JM
(Also, as an SDA I have been told all my life that the US is going to end up doing that and attack true Christians for practicing their faith. So obviously I would be concerned for Tomorrow without even considering the "if they come for the XXX and I saw nothing" consideration.)

[kentonio]

I would say much much less than 1 in 100 (it is going to take more than 1 justice who wants to ban sodomy, and once sodomy is banned it is going to take the executive branch/law enforcement having a desire to actively prosecute... and then there is duration to consider). While for African Americans it is near 1 in 1 (there is active support from law enforcement, some support from the courts and strong support from the new executive) and for Muslims/Hispanics it is probably 1 in 10 or so (here also there is active support from law enforcement, although I think the courts are less supportive).

JM

Im not talking about sodomy laws, I'm talking about the wife raft of other laws protecting homosexuals and standardizing homosexual relationships in law.

[kentonio]

Since that's not what Christianity is about that makes you dishonest. I'm sure that it has been explained to you many times.

So the church no longer considers suicide to be a mortal sin then?