The Moral Arc

[Aeson]

Homosexuality was actually illegal until rather recently, and still is in many places ... with people being jailed and forcibly institutionalized if they are caught. Or executed in some parts of the world. Sure, it's easier to hide it ... but living under the threat of being imprisoned for your sexuality is not oppression? (Not to mention the ridicule and scorn that was socially acceptable until very recently.)

Also, Donald Trump's SCOTUS list is anything but re-assuring:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-scotus-pick-william-h-pryor_us_582dc4d6e4b099512f81176d

“This Court [the Supreme Court] has never recognized a fundamental right to engage in sexual activity outside of monogamous heterosexual marriage, let alone to engage in homosexual sodomy,” Pryor wrote. “Such a right would be antithetical to the ‘traditional relation of the family’ that is ‘as old and as fundamental as our entire civilization.”

He also said homosexuality was harmful and that Texans needed protection from it.

“Texas is hardly alone in concluding that homosexual sodomy may have severe physical, emotional, psychological, and spiritual consequences, which do not necessarily attend heterosexual sodomy, and from which Texas’s citizens need to be protected.”

He also argued there was “no fundamental right to engage in homosexual sodomy just because it is done behind closed doors… Because homosexual sodomy has not historically been recognized in this country as a right — to the contrary, it has historically been recognized as a wrong — it is not a fundamental right.”

... Pryor in defence of criminalising and imprisoning homosexuals for having sex in their own homes.

[Jon Miller]

And I think it is really obvious that homosexuals, in the US, have not faced anything like Internment Camps, Jim Crow, Slavery, the 'War on Crime' or anything else similar... nor even what homosexuals experienced in Nazi Germany or other places where homosexuals have experienced sustained open attacks on their lives/property.

I don't disagree with the fact that homosexuals were discriminated against in the US (particularly in the late 19th century and mid 20th century). It just objectively was not anywhere near the level that racial minorities have experienced in the US, repeatedly throughout history.

JM

[Kidlicious]

Just to be clear, being a homosexual was never illegal. Sodomy was illegal.

[Berzerker]

And I think it is really obvious that homosexuals, in the US, have not faced anything like Internment Camps, Jim Crow, Slavery, the 'War on Crime' or anything else similar... nor even what homosexuals experienced in Nazi Germany or other places where homosexuals have experienced sustained open attacks on their lives/property.

I don't disagree with the fact that homosexuals were discriminated against in the US (particularly in the late 19th century and mid 20th century). It just objectively was not anywhere near the level that racial minorities have experienced in the US, repeatedly throughout history.

JM

aint no black kids getting kicked out by their folks for being black

[Elok]

And homosexuals are not routinely shot or beaten to death by police officers. Also the gay parts of town tend to be rather nice while the black parts of town tend to be miserable ****holes, and a gay kid has a much higher chance, all else being equal, to be raised in a two-parent home. Is this tangent going anywhere in particular? Each group faces its challenges, but if I set aside my theological concerns I'd honestly rather be gay than black. YMMV.

[Kidlicious]

And homosexuals are not routinely shot or beaten to death by police officers. Also the gay parts of town tend to be rather nice while the black parts of town tend to be miserable ****holes, and a gay kid has a much higher chance, all else being equal, to be raised in a two-parent home. Is this tangent going anywhere in particular? Each group faces its challenges, but if I set aside my theological concerns I'd honestly rather be gay than black. YMMV.

You usually only get shot or beaten by police if you are a criminal or on PCP. That goes for gay people too.

[Aeson]

And I think it is really obvious that homosexuals, in the US, have not faced anything like Internment Camps, Jim Crow, Slavery, the 'War on Crime' or anything else similar... nor even what homosexuals experienced in Nazi Germany or other places where homosexuals have experienced sustained open attacks on their lives/property.

I don't disagree with the fact that homosexuals were discriminated against in the US (particularly in the late 19th century and mid 20th century). It just objectively was not anywhere near the level that racial minorities have experienced in the US, repeatedly throughout history.

Strawman. No one is claiming that homosexuals were oppressed more/less than any other group. The nature of the oppression of homosexuals is historical fact, and we all know it happened.

The question in this thread is whether or not homosexuals and women really have a right to be scared about what Trump means for their future. It's quite obvious they are right to be scared ... because of who Trump has said he would nominate to SCOTUS, that Trump will get to nominate 1 Justice, and the possibility that Trump could nominate 2, 3, or even 4 Justices given the ages of current Justices.

[giblets]

Just to be clear, being a homosexual was never illegal. Sodomy was illegal.

Same sex cuddling was still allowed.

[Kidlicious]

Same sex cuddling was still allowed.

Only lesbians do that.... As far as I know.

[Main_Brain]

Trump was about to take over and start hunting lesbians for sport.

Ahh, the greatest ga(y)me

[Kidlicious]

Strawman. No one is claiming that homosexuals were oppressed more/less than any other group. The nature of the oppression of homosexuals is historical fact, and we all know it happened.

The question in this thread is whether or not homosexuals and women really have a right to be scared about what Trump means for their future. It's quite obvious they are right to be scared ... because of who Trump has said he would nominate to SCOTUS, that Trump will get to nominate 1 Justice, and the possibility that Trump could nominate 2, 3, or even 4 Justices given the ages of current Justices.

So are you suggesting that sodomy is going to be illegal again or that people will be actually scared that they won't be able to marry same sex or get an abortion?

[Kidlicious]

I don't know what the right response to Americans should be. I've dealt with politicians since I was a teen-ager. Most sincerely believe in doing good though their definition of what good is is greatly divergent. Most will stretch the truth from time to time if they are fairly sure they can get away with it... and this is where this American election has changed.

Soon to be president Donald Trump will do the equivalent of stand on stage naked and swear he is wearing a new suit. He will yell at anyone who does not acknowledge his new suit. He will call them liars. He has found sycophants who will compliment him on his new suit. And he's been doing this for months. And many many people voted for him although he's a naked liar.

This is new at least I've never seen such a crude barefaced liar before rise so high.

If you are one of those people who have a problem with his behavior and know he and his ilk will have real impact on your life and your children's lives, would you not be worried?

I'm worried and I'm not American. What he does will effect the world, and I'm sure not for the better.

How many of the half dozen living US presidents will attend his swearing in?

Quite honestly I'be been actually afraid that Obama would try to stay in power. I say that because I think that he thinks like you, being a liberal, that he thinks that America is evil, and Trump is a psychopath. I think people have much more reason to be afraid of the left than the right and Donald Trump.

[Aeson]

So are you suggesting that sodomy is going to be illegal again or that people will be actually scared that they won't be able to marry same sex or get an abortion?

When the President Elect says (via his actions), "I think someone who wants to imprison homosexuals for having sex in their own homes should be deciding things like whether or not homosexuals should be imprisoned for having sex in their own homes" ... that is very scary.

[Kidlicious]

Meg, a great many progressives seem to have lost their minds and have completely become detached from reality. Maybe next time they will bother to get off their back sides and actually show up to vote.

It wouldn't hurt if the Dems could manage to find a candidate worth voting for.

I predict that in 2020 the Dems will nominate an admitted socialist at least as leftist as Bernie if not more so. I don't see much chance of another so called moderate winning the nomination anytime soon. Your party is one ruled by extremists now. And I don't say that the way Dems call everyone else extremists. They are the actually extremists.

[Kidlicious]

When the President Elect says (via his actions), "I think someone who wants to imprison homosexuals for having sex in their own homes should be deciding things like whether or not homosexuals should be imprisoned for having sex in their own homes" ... that is very scary.

I think the chance of that happening is less than 1 in 100.