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A dude may have existed... But in the way people explain no. I don't believe in fairytales.
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For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence) -
Yes, a myth united the Arabs and steamrolled all of Arabia. GC, are you even vaguely aware of the history of Islam? Even a little bit? Doubting the existence of Jesus is pointlessly contrarian, but not outside the realm of possibility. Doubting Muhammad existed is simply moronic.Comment
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Keep it up with the histrionics. Religion does have a habit of uniting certain people and often with catastrophic consequences.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Muhammad was not a humble street preacher like Jesus. He was a warlord and politician who rose from humble beginnings to rule a sizable empire. Look at a map of Saudi Arabia. Basically, he made that. His life story, barring a handful of miraculous anecdotes (the revelations, night journey to Jerusalem) is entirely plausible from an atheist's POV. There are all sorts of details recorded about him, down to trivial crap like the funny way he walked. You have no conceivable reason to doubt his existence beyond his being a religious leader--and if it comes to that, so was Julius ****ing Caesar. Pontifex Maximus. SOMEBODY ELSE CONQUERED GAULComment
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As a man... Maybe. But that is the extent of it.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Were you under the impression that I--an Orthodox Christian--and the atheist Ken were arguing for Islam? No. Muhammad was an illiterate merchant-adventurer from the ass-end of nowhere who bastardized a religious tradition he barely understood, and you will not see me arguing for his religious beliefs.
But "maybe"? GTFO.Comment
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That I will agree with as far as Muhammed is concerned. As far as Jesus... That's a fairytale.Originally posted by Elok View PostFor there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Well, you've set up the terms of your argument, as far as I can tell, such that they are not falsifiable. You reject evidence (Tacitus, scholarly consensus) which you don't agree with, no reason given, and reiterate your argument when challenged. There seems to be no reason to continue the argument if you're going to take that attitude.Comment
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By your own admission, you are seeing things from a biased standpoint. It is in your interest to claim Jesus was real. No. I am not buying it.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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How does that not work in reverse? You're an atheist, so I could just as easily argue that you're biased against. And I have at no point tried to argue for the divinity or miracles of Jesus. My claim here--and Ken's, and Lori's, AFAICT--is that Christianity most probably was started by or around an actual preacher named Yeshua. Nothing more. To believe otherwise leaves a large gap in the early leadership of the religion, among other problems.Comment
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And me and kentonio and atheist historians who accept that there was a preacher named Jesus who the Romans probably executed?Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La RochefoucauldComment
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Dag, Ken, you're just pre-empting Lori at every turn here.Comment
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Not on my game today.
Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La RochefoucauldComment
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I also don't consider myself to be a christian anymore (although officially still a member of the evangelical church of germany) but still have no problem in assuming that there actually was a jewish preacher Yeshuah, who was the origin for the first christiansTamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"Comment
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