UK Trident vote today

[ZEE]

Oerdin has a large beer belly, you guise lol.

[Giancarlo]

First of all, no, I am not a Trump supporter and second of all look at the dates of the posts in this thread as it predates Trump's statements. Also, yes, Belgium does need to have an actual military so it can actually contribute to the joint defense otherwise why should everyone else contribute instead of deciding to try to freeload as well? There should be minimum contribution levels in order to remain in the alliances so that their are both benefits and responsibilities that are shared.

Belgium doesn't need tanks to contribute. You still don't quite get the argument. And their country is small and doesn't have the budget the support a large force. You sound like you are supporting what Trump has said. Nobody is freeloading. This isn't the cold war anymore.

And not having tanks doesn't mean they don't have an actual military. Again, with the cold war mentality. You are echoing what Trump has said.

[Giancarlo]

http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl20...pr2016-116.pdf

Defence spending in Europe is going up. Especially in the East of Europe.

Belgium is an exception.

The Greeks spend the most as a percentage of GDP after the U.S.

Greece should be reducing their military because they are still in a deep economic recession. You don't increase the military budget while in economic trouble.

[Dinner]

http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl20...pr2016-116.pdf

Defence spending in Europe is going up. Especially in the East of Europe.

Belgium is an exception.

The Greeks spend the most as a percentage of GDP after the U.S.

Last I heard Poland was responsible for much of the increases in defense spending. The old western Europe still has impressive budgets for defense despite it being fragmented and very inefficient the problem is much of it doesn't result in fieldable capability. Just look how tge European contingent in places like Libya and Kosovo were out of missiles and bombs in just a day or two and hard to rely upon the US to bring more in for them. The UK spenda a good deal but it mostly goes to equipment where as the actual fighting manpower of the Royal Army is fairly small. At least the UK does have some force projection capability which is more than can be said for most NATO members. NATO needs to make sure every member is contributing to effective capabilities which can actually be fielded.

[Dinner]

http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl20...pr2016-116.pdf

Defence spending in Europe is going up. Especially in the East of Europe.

Belgium is an exception.

The Greeks spend the most as a percentage of GDP after the U.S.

Yes, but very little of it results in units or equipment which can contribute to the common defense. That is a problem.

[Giancarlo]

Last I heard Poland was responsible for much of the increases in defense spending. The old western Europe still has impressive budgets for defense despite it being fragmented and very inefficient the problem is much of it doesn't result in fieldable capability. Just look how tge European contingent in places like Libya and Kosovo were out of missiles and bombs in just a day or two and hard to rely upon the US to bring more in for them. The UK spenda a good deal but it mostly goes to equipment where as the actual fighting manpower of the Royal Army is fairly small. At least the UK does have some force projection capability which is more than can be said for most NATO members. NATO needs to make sure every member is contributing to effective capabilities which can actually be fielded.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Force projection? These countries don't have the population to do that. We shouldn't be spending stupid amounts of money on the military, when there are many other issues. They just don't seem to grasp that in the US. By the way, nations like France and UK contribute quite actively. Nations don't need large conventional armies anymore.

[N35t0r]

The Iranians want to stop freeloading but you guys won't let them

[Elok]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Force projection? These countries don't have the population to do that. We shouldn't be spending stupid amounts of money on the military, when there are many other issues. They just don't seem to grasp that in the US. By the way, nations like France and UK contribute quite actively. Nations don't need large conventional armies anymore.

What are you proposing instead? Helicopters?

[Giancarlo]

I can see some are up to no good with their snipes. Time to gain some maturity.

[Elok]

C'mon, now, you walked right into that one.

[Giancarlo]

C'mon, now, you walked right into that one.

Grow up!

[ZEE]

Oerdin's belly is so fat and saggy that it hangs down below his shirt and you can see it wiggling all around when he walks lol.

[PLATO]

Defense spending is always wasteful...until it's not.

[ZEE]

My poast was better.

[notyoueither]

Open to the floor- if Russia launched a serious invasion of Estonia, would you start nuking Russian cities?

Yes. The same way I'd glass the planet for any other NATO member. That's the only thing Putin and his ilk understand. Undermine that certainty at your own extreme peril.