Orthodox answers

[Elok]

I'm afraid I know nothing of Bulgaria after the end of Byzantium; is your Church in much the same vein as Russia's (ludicrously rich, plays poodle for a corrupt administration to be pampered in exchange)?

[Sir Og]

They are fairly rich. Have taste for expensive cars. (As the saying goes we were collecting money for a church but we collected just enough for an Audi A8.) To be fair most of the expensive cars are probably gifts from guilty conscience businessmen.

They don't go much into politics AFAIK. Russia seems a lot more religious and the church is more involved in the politics there IMO.

Above notwithstanding, I believe in the free market much more than in god and it seem obvious that the church provides a very valuable service. (for the people who are spiritually inclined) After all they are giving them willingly so much money. I believe that markets are efficient so the fact that the churches are rich is proof that they are valuable.

P.S.
Are your roots Greek or Russian?

[Elok]

Neither. My mother is a Pittsburgh German who converted from Lutheranism as a teenager; she had a Russian boyfriend for a while, who introduced her to his religion, and as she puts it, she ditched the boyfriend but kept his church. My dad is utterly agnostic, but let her raise us as Orthodox. AFAIK there's not a drop of Slav or Greek blood between the two of them. I'm white-bread Orthodox. This is, if not the norm, at least increasingly common in America. Until I moved last year I went to a church that started with nineteen disaffected Anglicans following their old pastor, and now has something like 200 people every Sunday, perhaps a third of whom are of traditionally Orthodox race. Even my current church, while belonging to the Greek archdiocese, has about an equal mix of Slavs and Greeks, and a growing batch of weirdos like my family.

[Bereta_Eder]

HA! take that sava (love you man)
He's not a convert, he was raised in it

[Elok]

We're going to have to become a trans-ethnic, high-convert church before long. The European and Arab immigrants who founded the churches in this country have grown old and died, and their descendants are less and less interested in being part of a church that mostly exists as part of a foreign culture. They've never been to the Old Country, and they might like cutting the Vasilopita every New Year, but it's just not that big a part of their identity. They're Americans. The Church needs to be American too. This doesn't mean giving up ethnic customs; the ex-Anglican church I described is more of a mishmash of cultures, where the answers to the ektenia come in eight different languages.

At the heart of it is a joke I heard from the Met. Kallistos Ware in a podcast: Two Greek priests meet on the street in London. The first notices that the second is carrying an umbrella, and asks what's up; it's not supposed to rain that day. "No," says the second, "but it is raining in Athens."

[Bereta_Eder]

That brought to my mind the lyrics of a song "Europe ain't my rope to swing on, Can't learn a thing from it, Yet we hang from it" (from an american band, rage against the machine as it were )

I suppose.
The diaspora is a very funny (I say this in a good way) thing to witness, many disparities, molden personalities, between the continents etc

Someone going his own way, while staying true to the roots, is one of the best things I can imagine

[ZEE]

The only way I will ever be happy in life, is if I move to Greece.

[The Mad Monk]

Move to New Jersey, experience the Greek Diner Culture.

[Bereta_Eder]

Too american

[The Mad Monk]

So's the planet. You getting off?

[Bereta_Eder]

The planet is too american?

That's too american
(or kansas maybe :shrugs: )

[Berzerker]

The answer to which is that most of us are moral (to the extent we are moral at all) not so much because of our innate goodness as because exterior incentives are such as to discourage casual barbarity

I dont attack people because I dont want to be attacked, its more a rejection of hypocrisy than fear of upsetting society

[Elok]

I dont attack people because I dont want to be attacked, its more a rejection of hypocrisy than fear of upsetting society

To which my answer is that that is mostly a sanctimonious gloss added after the fact, whether you say it or someone else. We may believe any number of things philosophically, but philosophy has very little measurable effect on actual behavior most of the time. If it did, "hypocrisy" would hardly even exist as a concept.

[ZEE]

Elok is a nerd.

[Berzerker]

To which my answer is that that is mostly a sanctimonious gloss added after the fact, whether you say it or someone else. We may believe any number of things philosophically, but philosophy has very little measurable effect on actual behavior most of the time. If it did, "hypocrisy" would hardly even exist as a concept.

After what fact? After I've decided not to mug someone? If I could get away with mugging people and knew it, I still wouldn't mug people. It has nothing to do with getting caught, I just wouldn't want to be mugged so how can I in good conscience do to others what I dont want done to me?