Protestant Answers

[loinburger]

Catholics have a concept of major (mortal) and minor (veniel) sins, a concept that in my experience most protestants reject. I have difficulty reconciling this with the notion that some self-identified Christians are not actually Christian due to the severity of the sins they've committed (murder or butt sex or whatever). My question to any protestants who hold this view are: how do you determine which sins do not strip you of your Christianity and which sins do strip you of your Christianity? Because the jaded humanist in me just sees this as "sins that I commit are okay, sins that other people commit are worthy of damnation."

My second question stems from a radio program I heard recently in which some protestants were saying that Prince was going to hell for being a Jehovah's Witness. Why? Because Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus rose from the dead as a spiritual entity, while True Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead as a physical entity. What the **** is this ****?

[Aeson]

I'm sure the Mormons will baptise Prince, and the Mormons believe Jesus rose from the dead in the flesh, so no worries.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

I don't think that many protestants would agree that you will go to heaven, if you were not part of their particular denomination. Sense of identity needs to be strong, in order to be able to collect money in perpetuity.

[loinburger]

I don't think that many protestants would agree that you will go to heaven, if you were not part of their particular denomination. Sense of identity needs to be strong, in order to be able to collect money in perpetuity.

That's very much what the radio program seemed to be saying - if you don't believe in our particular version of Jesus then you're ****ed, or, we're Protestants and so we read the Bible but we've got to read it in the right way or else we're ****ed

[Jon Miller]

To my knowledge the only special sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. To understand what this is, see the context:

Mark 3:
20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family[b] heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”

23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

30 He said this because they were saying, “He has an impure spirit.”

Basically blaspheming against the Holy Spirit at some level is believing that the spirit/actions of God are the spirit/actions of the Devil (or mental insanity).

Here is the Methodists:
Wesley notes that the penalty of eternal separation from God with no hope of return applies in scripture only in two cases—either, as in Hebrews 6 and 10, to persons who willfully, publically [sic] and explicitly reject Jesus as Savior after having confessed him, or, as in the gospels, to those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit by declaring that the works of Jesus were the works of the Evil one.

JM

[Jon Miller]

That's very much what the radio program seemed to be saying - if you don't believe in our particular version of Jesus then you're ****ed, or, we're Protestants and so we read the Bible but we've got to read it in the right way or else we're ****ed

It may be called Remnant Theology and it is the believe that every other group but yours has turned away and refused God's leading.

Reformed churches/denominations may have this fault, but are generally small.

I grew up seventh-day adventist, and still consider myself a member. Remnant Theology is common in the adventist denomination particularly around the Sabbath. When a particular church has bought into remnant theology, many do not, I do not attend.

JM

[Bereta_Eder]

nuts

[Dry]

An answer from the past, when I still was a believer:
All sins, even the smallest one is mortal. One size fits all. Forgetting your mother's birthday or murdering 100 babies, both forbid you the access to heaven.
The day you convert, you are supposed to become aware of these sins and of course deeply regret them. You ask JC for forgiveness, and voilà, you got a fresh start.
For the days after your convertion, unfortunately, you are going to sins again, but from now on, it is the intent that is key.
If you intent was to do good, but the thing are went wrong, it is obvious that you regret it, so no big deal here.
If your intent is evil, egoistic, sadistic, disrespectful, disobediend.... then you'll need some big discussion with Jebus (=pray) and serious repentance, reparation, forgiveness by those offended to clean the mess up. You are supposed to never sin in that way again. And if indeed it never happens again, you have clearly demonstrate your good intent.
Now, if you do it again, and again, the number of time and frequency at which you repeatit is a troublesome indication that maybe you did not really regret it. And you fellow Xtians question your honesty in the 'deep regret' thing.
But because no other human is able to read your mind, nobody can really judge you. Only mind-reading God can.
Awareness of guilt, intent and regret are a few keys.

[Lorizael]

It may be called Remnant Theology and it is the believe that every other group but yours has turned away and refused God's leading.

Reformed churches/denominations may have this fault, but are generally small.

I grew up seventh-day adventist, and still consider myself a member. Remnant Theology is common in the adventist denomination particularly around the Sabbath. When a particular church has bought into remnant theology, many do not, I do not attend.

JM

"Remnant theology" is a common part of being an ******* human who can't conceive of or accept other worldviews. (All humans are ******* humans. (I don't count because I'm an inhuman monster.))

[loinburger]

By the way, if you ever want to listen to some crazy then try Issues in education - admittedly the only one I've listened to is Defending America pt 2 where we learn that
1. Muslims worship a pagan moon god
2. There are Muslim terror cells all over the US but we aren't doing anything about it because Liberals
3. These terror cells have three nuclear weapons
4. and so on

[rah]

Was Kid lurking there?

[Proteus_MST]

Catholics have a concept of major (mortal) and minor (veniel) sins, a concept that in my experience most protestants reject. I have difficulty reconciling this with the notion that some self-identified Christians are not actually Christian due to the severity of the sins they've committed (murder or butt sex or whatever). My question to any protestants who hold this view are: how do you determine which sins do not strip you of your Christianity and which sins do strip you of your Christianity? Because the jaded humanist in me just sees this as "sins that I commit are okay, sins that other people commit are worthy of damnation."

My second question stems from a radio program I heard recently in which some protestants were saying that Prince was going to hell for being a Jehovah's Witness. Why? Because Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus rose from the dead as a spiritual entity, while True Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead as a physical entity. What the **** is this ****?

I am sure this article from Jack Chick (the one with the protestant fundamentalist comic tracts) reflects the narrowminded view of many protestant fundamentalists:

http://www.chick.com/bc/1986/arecatholicssaved.asp

Or with this tract regarding Afterlife in Catholicism:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0082/0082_01.asp

that surely also reflects the view of protestant fundamentalists on Mormonism and every other christian sect that they don't belong to

[BeBMan]

By the way, if you ever want to listen to some crazy then try Issues in education - admittedly the only one I've listened to is Defending America pt 2 where we learn that
1. Muslims worship a pagan moon god
2. There are Muslim terror cells all over the US but we aren't doing anything about it because Liberals
3. These terror cells have three nuclear weapons
4. and so on

So liberals are some kind of a deterrence vs. nuclear terrorism? Sounds almost like a good thing?

[The Mad Monk]

To my knowledge the only special sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. To understand what this is, see the context:

Mark 3:
20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family[b] heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”

23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

30 He said this because they were saying, “He has an impure spirit.”

Basically blaspheming against the Holy Spirit at some level is believing that the spirit/actions of God are the spirit/actions of the Devil (or mental insanity).

Here is the Methodists:
Wesley notes that the penalty of eternal separation from God with no hope of return applies in scripture only in two cases—either, as in Hebrews 6 and 10, to persons who willfully, publically [sic] and explicitly reject Jesus as Savior after having confessed him, or, as in the gospels, to those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit by declaring that the works of Jesus were the works of the Evil one.

JM

I believe it goes further than this. It is not enough to declare the works of the holy spirit demonic, if done so out of ignorance; you must be actively lying when you do so -- that is, you understand the nature of what you're denigrating, but mislead others about it deliberately -- as the "teachers of the law" were surely doing.

As to what Wesley states, that seems too strict; it doesn't allow for moments of weakness or duress. If that were the case, how could even Simon Peter be saved, after the incident at the trial?

[Jon Miller]

I think your reasoning is correct.

JM