Programming advice please

[kentonio]

Tools are much more important than assets. Using them still means having to learn to code. But the bigger unmentioned problem is UE's orientation towards first-person real time games. Making a different game means pulling out a lot of default systems.

I've bolded the most relevant part. If you're taking your first steps into coding, the tools often act as little more than a crutch. Worse, you're trying to learn by using someone elses tool (which is far beyond your level of understanding) and trying to make it work for your project. I've seen a lot of new coders get so twisted up trying to adapt scripts they've downloaded that they just end up lost. As for UE4, I don't know when the last time you used it was, but it isn't focused on FPS these days. You can chose a starting project in one of about 10 different game types which makes getting started much easier.

If he wants to learn to code along the way, then relying on visual scripting is a terrible idea. It's a non-transferrable skill and connecting nodes is slow af. And no one spends four hours tracing a missing semicolon. Extra semicolons can be a problem in C-syntax languages, but modern compilers warn you about them.

Visual scripting gives you an understanding of how code structures actually work, and as I mentioned are a great way to get a feel for classes and inheritance, which can be a really alien concept for new coders. I have no idea why you'd say its slow as ****, its a hell of a lot quicker when you're just starting out than learning the correct code syntax to achieve what you want to achieve. For an experienced programmer sure, its inefficient as ****, but remember we're talking about people completely new to code here. It's completely normal for people to spend hours agonizing over their incredibly basic program, only to eventually figure out (if they do at all) that it was failing as a result of a tiny syntax error.

Redmonk (http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2015/07/0...rankings-6-15/) estimates that both languages are equally popular at the moment. TIOBE's more conservative, but both languages are in the Top-5. C++ is on the decline, though. Enterprise software is generally written in Java or C#, if MS stack is used. AAA games are written in C++, but game development companies are terrible employers. Manual memory management is much more difficult to grasp than automatic memory management via a tracing garbage collector. Spending four hours (or days!) looking for that memory leak or a dangling pointer is much more likely than looking for a missing semicolon.

As I said, my estimation of C++ being more common could well have been biased by my own industry knowledge. Calling game development companies terrible employers though is unfair in many ways. They pay a lot less than more traditional industries and the hours can be longer during crunch, but there are also a lot of very real lifestyle benefits and the work is considerably more interesting than most software development.

[onodera]

Visual scripting gives you an understanding of how code structures actually work, and as I mentioned are a great way to get a feel for classes and inheritance, which can be a really alien concept for new coders. I have no idea why you'd say its slow as ****, its a hell of a lot quicker when you're just starting out than learning the correct code syntax to achieve what you want to achieve. For an experienced programmer sure, its inefficient as ****, but remember we're talking about people completely new to code here. It's completely normal for people to spend hours agonizing over their incredibly basic program, only to eventually figure out (if they do at all) that it was failing as a result of a tiny syntax error.

Give me an example of at least one such tiny syntax error. Syntax is syntax, you learn it once and you use it. Yes, there are hairier parts like "int * a, b;" and whatever a pointer to a function that returns a pointer to a function that returns a pointer to an int looks like in C, but a beginner won't meet a pointer until they are already familiar with the basic syntax.

As I said, my estimation of C++ being more common could well have been biased by my own industry knowledge. Calling game development companies terrible employers though is unfair in many ways. They pay a lot less than more traditional industries and the hours can be longer during crunch, but there are also a lot of very real lifestyle benefits and the work is considerably more interesting than most software development.

The work is not the achievement of the employer, but what benefits are you talking about that outweigh low pay and crazy hours?

[kentonio]

Give me an example of at least one such tiny syntax error. Syntax is syntax, you learn it once and you use it. Yes, there are hairier parts like "int * a, b;" and whatever a pointer to a function that returns a pointer to a function that returns a pointer to an int looks like in C, but a beginner won't meet a pointer until they are already familiar with the basic syntax.

How long ago did you first start learning to code exactly? Because my introduction to programming class was full of us poor saps sitting there doing exactly that week in week out for the first couple of months. And we had the benefit of tutors we could ask for help if we got too stuck.

The work is not the achievement of the employer, but what benefits are you talking about that outweigh low pay and crazy hours?

The crazy hours is usually only during the last few months of development, during long periods of dev the hours are actually pretty standard usually and a lot more chilled than you'll see in most traditional jobs. Lifestyle benefits include wearing pretty much whatever the hell you want, working in an environment where the normal boss/worker structure is considerable more lax than normal jobs, often a lot of freedom for people to dick around with internet/gaming stuff when the pressure isn't on, often flexible starting/finishing hours and a real sense that the games you're working on are something personal to you that you can invest in emotionally and creatively. A lot of people leave for more traditional tech jobs when they get older and don't find that stuff compensates for the lower pay, but its enough to keep a lot of people there.

[onodera]

How long ago did you first start learning to code exactly? Because my introduction to programming class was full of us poor saps sitting there doing exactly that week in week out for the first couple of months. And we had the benefit of tutors we could ask for help if we got too stuck.

:shrug: How old were you back then?

The crazy hours is usually only during the last few months of development, during long periods of dev the hours are actually pretty standard usually and a lot more chilled than you'll see in most traditional jobs. Lifestyle benefits include wearing pretty much whatever the hell you want, working in an environment where the normal boss/worker structure is considerable more lax than normal jobs, often a lot of freedom for people to dick around with internet/gaming stuff when the pressure isn't on, often flexible starting/finishing hours and a real sense that the games you're working on are something personal to you that you can invest in emotionally and creatively. A lot of people leave for more traditional tech jobs when they get older and don't find that stuff compensates for the lower pay, but its enough to keep a lot of people there.

Most web shops are quite similar in atmosphere, or so I've heard, other than uneven pressure, which is not a benefit to me.

[Proteus_MST]

In computer science at university, the introductory courses into OOP were all in Java ... think it is still the case.

As for C# vs. C++ ... IMHO C# is definitely more convenient for beginners ... not so much harm you can do due to having references instead of pointers (at my work actually both is used ... C# as well as C++ ... I for my part also currently use C# in order to write a DLL for Access ... initially wanted to use C++ for this task, but it is extremly inconvenient to get VBA and C++ work together ... in contrast to C#)

[kentonio]

:shrug: How old were you back then?

18-19 kind of age.

Most web shops are quite similar in atmosphere, or so I've heard, other than uneven pressure, which is not a benefit to me.

How many people look back years later on a website they were proud of and that millions of people used and enjoyed? Games is kind of special in many ways, although that fact is used to manipulate staff into accepting lower wages than they should purely because so many people want to be doing the work.

[Aeson]

How many people look back years later on a website they were proud of and that millions of people used and enjoyed?

I'm sure I will someday ... not talking about Apolyton of course.

[kentonio]

[loinburger]

At my last job we had to pay people to visit the website