Programming advice please

[loinburger]

Cool. Matlab is free for me as long as I can continue to convince them I'm a UMD student. I've been using Matlab for awhile now, but mostly for data processing/graphing. I've heard of Octave but haven't used it. Several of my classmates hate Matlab and think Python is clearly superior, but I'm not sure what they're basing this opinion on.

NumPy and SciPy are both pretty nice, but for standalone development Matlab/Julia are preferable since the NumPy/SciPy visualization stuff isn't as mature; NumPy and SciPy will also be a lot more useful (from my perspective as a JVM programmer) once they run on Jython, but who know if and when that's going to happen

[kentonio]

I'd go with Unity over UE4. Mainly for the amount of tools/assets available, as well as the general usefulness of C#/Javascript vs UE4's scripting or difficulty of C++.

Try both out and see what suits you best.

Assets isn't really relevant, because a 3d model is a 3d model at the end of the day. Unity certainly has a lot more scripts and tools available, but if he wants to learn to code along the way then relying on downloading that stuff isn't a great idea anyway, any more than just downloading Unreal blueprints would be.

If he's coming at it as a complete beginner, then visual scripting can be a great foot in the door because you don't need to learn any syntax at all to get started, and you can test just by connecting nodes and pressing run. It takes a lot of the pain out of it, and largely avoids the whole 'spending 4 hours pulling your hair out, before realizing you forgot a semi-colon'.

Not sure what you mean about 'general usefulness of C#/Javascript'. Last I checked C# wasn't particularly easier to learn properly than C++, and I believe C++ is still far more widely used (although that could easily be skewed by my chiefly only knowing my own industry of course).

[onodera]

Assets isn't really relevant, because a 3d model is a 3d model at the end of the day. Unity certainly has a lot more scripts and tools available, but if he wants to learn to code along the way then relying on downloading that stuff isn't a great idea anyway, any more than just downloading Unreal blueprints would be.

If he's coming at it as a complete beginner, then visual scripting can be a great foot in the door because you don't need to learn any syntax at all to get started, and you can test just by connecting nodes and pressing run. It takes a lot of the pain out of it, and largely avoids the whole 'spending 4 hours pulling your hair out, before realizing you forgot a semi-colon'.

Not sure what you mean about 'general usefulness of C#/Javascript'. Last I checked C# wasn't particularly easier to learn properly than C++, and I believe C++ is still far more widely used (although that could easily be skewed by my chiefly only knowing my own industry of course).

Oerdin, how did you manage to steal kentonio's password?

[kentonio]

Oerdin, how did you manage to steal kentonio's password?

Please be specific if you're going to try and say I'm wrong.

[loinburger]

I'd say that C# is easier to learn than C++ (or at least the version of C++ I learned fifteen years ago) because stupid mistakes like array bounds errors or null pointer dereferences produce a nice stack trace instead of an opaque segmentation fault (or worse, no error at all)

[kentonio]

I'd say that C# is easier to learn than C++ (or at least the version of C++ I learned fifteen years ago) because stupid mistakes like array bounds errors or null pointer dereferences produce a nice stack trace instead of an opaque segmentation fault (or worse, no error at all)

To be fair I was basing that primarily on second hand accounts from C++ programmers. It could just have been them too deeply tied up in prior C++ habits and finding the transition to # annoying. I've heard a few other people say though that learning the basics of C# is easier but learning to use it properly is basically just as challenging as C++.

[loinburger]

Yeah, one of the most difficult things with moving from C++ to Java (when I was a novice-to-intermediate programmer) was the lack of a deterministic destructor - Java/C# have finalizers, but they don't execute as soon as an object becomes unreachable and they might never execute especially if e.g. the VM is using a generational collector and the unreachable object is in the mature generation. C# makes it a bit easier to use destructor patterns thanks to its IDisposable interface and ability to selectively turn off finalization, though

[Aeson]

Assets isn't really relevant, because a 3d model is a 3d model at the end of the day.

They are relevant because the point of having ready made assets is they're easy to plug in. Porting 3d models from one format to another can range from somewhat more difficult to a huge headache.

Having a wider selection is a good thing.

Not sure what you mean about 'general usefulness of C#/Javascript'. Last I checked C# wasn't particularly easier to learn properly than C++, and I believe C++ is still far more widely used (although that could easily be skewed by my chiefly only knowing my own industry of course).

C# is somewhat easier to pick up than C++. I was comparing usefulness to what someone new to the game engines is likely to be doing. Like you said previously, someone new to UE4 may not even see any C++ for a while (and it's possible to make a game without it at all.) Someone new to Unity is going to get some C# from the first tutorial on. (Unless they happen to run into the plugin for Unity that works like Blueprint for UE4.)

(I should note the Javascript in Unity isn't real Javascript. Learning it will help you learn Javascript, but there are important differences.)

[kentonio]

They are relevant because the point of having ready made assets is they're easy to plug in. Porting 3d models from one format to another can range from somewhat more difficult to a huge headache.

Having a wider selection is a good thing.

True, I might be being a bit flippant about it on second thoughts, as if you're just downloading models rather than making them, converting to different file types is indeed likely to be quite annoying. Finding free models in fbx or obj really isn't difficult though. Easy important of art assets was always one of Unity's big strengths though in fairness.

C# is somewhat easier to pick up than C++. I was comparing usefulness to what someone new to the game engines is likely to be doing. Like you said previously, someone new to UE4 may not even see any C++ for a while (and it's possible to make a game without it at all.) Someone new to Unity is going to get some C# from the first tutorial on. (Unless they happen to run into the plugin for Unity that works like Blueprint for UE4.)

(I should note the Javascript in Unity isn't real Javascript. Learning it will help you learn Javascript, but there are important differences.)

It depends if his reason for wanting to learn code was to make small games or to actually learn to become a coder I suppose. I'd still stand by visual scripting being an excellent way to get an introduction to some core programming concepts that can be a pain in the ass for new coders to wrap their heads around though. Although Unreal's scripting does impose a few artificial constrains like only allowing single linear executable chains which can be annoying as ****.

[BlackCat]

Here's a question for programmer people. What would you suggest learning if you're interested in computational simulation (as in physics/astrophysics/cosmology)? I don't think anyone here actually does that... but I figure computer people might know people who do.

Does this sound interesting ?

pyunicorn (Unified Complex Network and RecurreNce analysis toolbox) is a fully object-oriented Python package for the advanced analysis and modeling of complex networks. Above the standard measures of complex network theory such as degree, betweenness and clustering coefficient it provides some uncommon but interesting statistics like Newman’s random walk betweenness. pyunicorn features novel node-weighted (node splitting invariant) network statistics as well as measures designed for analyzing networks of interacting/interdependent networks.

Moreover, pyunicorn allows to easily construct networks from uni- and multivariate time series data (functional (climate) networks and recurrence networks). This involves linear and nonlinear measures of time series analysis for constructing functional networks from multivariate data as well as modern techniques of nonlinear analysis of single time series like recurrence quantification analysis (RQA) and recurrence network analysis.

More here : http://www.pik-potsdam.de/~donges/pyunicorn/

[onodera]

Please be specific if you're going to try and say I'm wrong.

Every single paragraph was wrong.

[kentonio]

Every single paragraph was wrong.

Except it wasn't. As we've already discussed, the C++/C# question is certainly debatable, but the entry level for Unreal Engine 4 is lower than that of Unity currently for a non-coder, and I say that as someone who has not only used both extensively, but who works with developers on both on a daily basis. You can also throw in a degree in a computing speciality and several more years spent on university computer science work. If you want to disagree with me then specify why, otherwise you're just making noise.

[onodera]

Except it wasn't. As we've already discussed, the C++/C# question is certainly debatable, but the entry level for Unreal Engine 4 is lower than that of Unity currently for a non-coder, and I say that as someone who has not only used both extensively, but who works with developers on both on a daily basis. You can also throw in a degree in a computing speciality and several more years spent on university computer science work. If you want to disagree with me then specify why, otherwise you're just making noise.

Tomorrow.

[kentonio]

[onodera]

Assets isn't really relevant, because a 3d model is a 3d model at the end of the day. Unity certainly has a lot more scripts and tools available, but if he wants to learn to code along the way then relying on downloading that stuff isn't a great idea anyway, any more than just downloading Unreal blueprints would be.

Tools are much more important than assets. Using them still means having to learn to code. But the bigger unmentioned problem is UE's orientation towards first-person real time games. Making a different game means pulling out a lot of default systems.

If he's coming at it as a complete beginner, then visual scripting can be a great foot in the door because you don't need to learn any syntax at all to get started, and you can test just by connecting nodes and pressing run. It takes a lot of the pain out of it, and largely avoids the whole 'spending 4 hours pulling your hair out, before realizing you forgot a semi-colon'.

If he wants to learn to code along the way, then relying on visual scripting is a terrible idea. It's a non-transferrable skill and connecting nodes is slow af. And no one spends four hours tracing a missing semicolon. Extra semicolons can be a problem in C-syntax languages, but modern compilers warn you about them.

Not sure what you mean about 'general usefulness of C#/Javascript'. Last I checked C# wasn't particularly easier to learn properly than C++, and I believe C++ is still far more widely used (although that could easily be skewed by my chiefly only knowing my own industry of course).

Redmonk (http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2015/07/0...rankings-6-15/) estimates that both languages are equally popular at the moment. TIOBE's more conservative, but both languages are in the Top-5. C++ is on the decline, though. Enterprise software is generally written in Java or C#, if MS stack is used. AAA games are written in C++, but game development companies are terrible employers. Manual memory management is much more difficult to grasp than automatic memory management via a tracing garbage collector. Spending four hours (or days!) looking for that memory leak or a dangling pointer is much more likely than looking for a missing semicolon.