Why Climate Change is Racist Against Africans, According to JM

[NICE MOBIUS]

So, I posted this link on my facebook page: Overpopulation, overconsumption – in pictures

I thought it was a powerful way to convey the sheer scale of the impact humans are having on this planet in pictures, because I think overpopulation and overconsumption are major issues that do contribute to climate change.

JM's response was this:

The population explosion has ended everywhere outside of Africa. To focus on it now, when it will surely end in Africa as well as female education and equality comes, is racist.

So basically, being concerned about climate change is racist against Africans?

Discuss.

[C0ckney]

i agree, but i think consumption is a bigger issue than raw population numbers. unfortunately our entire economy and culture is geared towards increasing consumption and until that changes it's hard to see much progress being made.

[Aeson]

Consumption can be turned to more environmentally friendly forms ... like in app purchases

If everyone in the world consumed $3000 in app purchases a day, that would be $21 trillion a day! We could increase WGP by 10000%! And it would require less physical resources than say ... everyone having Netflix.

Hordes of people in marketing are working tirelessly to save humanity this way.

[giblets]

If you have doubts about Africa's ability to support 4+ billion people then you're a racist

[NICE MOBIUS]

i agree, but i think consumption is a bigger issue than raw population numbers. unfortunately our entire economy and culture is geared towards increasing consumption and until that changes it's hard to see much progress being made.

You agree with who, me or JM?

Also true wrt consumption. While we remain locked in a growth based economic model, we are destined to fail at tackling climate change.

Our only chance to avoid the slow motion train crash of humanity that we're currently in, is to embrace some form of Steady-state economics.

But that won't happen, as it is so hardwired into humanity to be so completely selfish, that it will ultimately lead to catastrophe.

[giblets]

I guess climate change will help with the overpopulation
Climate change 'kills 300,000 every year'

[loinburger]

JM's response was this:.

When I see somebody so desperately grasping at straws in a vain search for an argument ("surely once Africa becomes (more) overpopulated then all African females will finally have achieved equality (???)") then I just shake my head and move on - they're obviously not interested in having an honest discussion/argument/debate/whatever, or else they're insane. Though I am a bit surprised that he didn't accuse you of being sexist for being opposed to gender equality in Africa.

[C0ckney]

You agree with who, me or JM?

Also true wrt consumption. While we remain locked in a growth based economic model, we are destined to fail at tackling climate change.

Our only chance to avoid the slow motion train crash of humanity that we're currently in, is to embrace some form of Steady-state economics.

But that won't happen, as it is so hardwired into humanity to be so completely selfish, that it will ultimately lead to catastrophe.

with you; but JM isn't an idiot and perhaps he meant something different.

i don't think that our current paradigm is hardwired into humanity. human society has gone through incredible changes throughout history and will doubtless do so again. it is, however, hardwired into capitalism.

[loinburger]

with you; but JM isn't an idiot and perhaps he meant something different.

I'm assuming that JM is either trying to help bring about the apocalypse so that he can go to heaven sooner rather than later, or else that he was just trolling Mobious; if the former then there's no point in debating with him about overpopulation, and if the latter then I'd say that he's been successful.

[Jon Miller]

My point was that overpopulation was not an important cause of environmental catastrophe. The rest of the world has stopped having large families and soon Africa will too (it happens due to female education/etc). It is pretty much just African nations that have birth rates above 2.1. There is no need to 'solve' an overpopulation probslem in order to solve the environmental one. Focusing on solving the overpopulation problem would mean focusing on keeping African families from having children and so is inherently racist.

The US and Europe should focus on handling the problem that we have and can do something about, Overconsumption, instead of on the 'problem' (not a real one) that other countries have (ones that are a lot poorer than us, that we have a history of exploiting and abusing, and so on).

JM

[NICE MOBIUS]

with you; but JM isn't an idiot and perhaps he meant something different.

i don't think that our current paradigm is hardwired into humanity. human society has gone through incredible changes throughout history and will doubtless do so again. it is, however, hardwired into capitalism.

No, judging by the rest of the exchange, that's what he meant. Though, curiously the person that could be seen as guilty of racism is him, because he was acting from his own faulty notion that Africa is where all of the overpopulation is occurring even while I was pointing out that it was happening all over the world.

Also, capitalism = selfishness in my books.

[Jon Miller]

Unless you intend to kill a bunch of people, the way to stop Overpopulation is to stop people from having babies. Most countries that have more babies than replacement are in Africa.

JM

[giblets]

My point was that overpopulation was not an important cause of environmental catastrophe. The rest of the world has stopped having large families and soon Africa will too (it happens due to female education/etc).

The UN projects the African population nearly quadrupling by 2100, so it looks like your opinion is not shared by everyone.

[NICE MOBIUS]

See, again there's this crazy idea that Africans are spitting out babies left right and centre because they're uneducated etc.

I've already given you loads of examples of countries having more babies than replacement, and the majority of the top ones are outside of Africa.

I put it to you, that you're the racist in this scenario, with your implicit assertion that this is an African problem.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Reduced birthrates happen due to improved standard of living which include better healthcare, access to contraception and better education.

The UN is pretty much viewing Africa as remaining undeveloped until 2100 and beyond.