British Greatest Hits

[Uncle Sparky]

What about charging the father with procuring a sexual partner for his 11 year old? Should that be considered?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

No, because there's no mens rea.

[notyoueither]

There is no mens rea in manslaughter is there? It's a standard of could reasonably expect a very bad result...

Hey, I'm 40 and I've ****ed this twit, let's let her look after my hypersexual son... doh!

[notyoueither]

That's child endangerment.

[notyoueither]

A suspended sentence, plus a supervision order, plus seven years on the Sex Offenders Register, plus a banning order, isn't exactly getting away with it.

And would that be your guideline were the victim to be a girl and the offender to be a man?

A suspended sentence? Really?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

There is no mens rea in manslaughter is there?

There isn't the requisite level on mens rea for murder in manslaughter, but that doesn't mean there's no mens rea. It's pointless trying to drag in completely different crimes and standard. So let's close off this non-starter of a tangent before it derails the thread.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Hey, I'm 40 and I've ****ed this twit, let's let her look after my hypersexual son... doh!

That's very, very odd reasoning. Does having sex as a consenting adult render one incapable of being a responsible baby sitter?

Are you suggesting that the act of having sex leaves one a raging, lust-crazed animal, entirely at the urge of one's sexual impulses?

Is your proposed solution compulsory virginity tests for babysitters?

And would that be your guideline were the victim to be a girl and the offender to be a man?

The same? Why should we have a different standard applied for girls?

This is one of those times when I remember Poly gets really weird about the fact that sometimes women willingly have sex.

[Aeson]

11 year old "women"?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

That was more a reference to the "OMG she had SEX so clearly she is a WHORE and INCAPABLE OF BEING A BABYSITTER" reasoning.

Having said that, I'm still not convinced we need an entirely separate set of compulsory sentencing criteria because vagina.

[Aeson]

That's the point NYE is making ... there shouldn't be an entirely separate set of compulsory sentencing criteria because vagina. Thus why he's asking what your position would be if it was a 20 yo male having sex with an 11 yo female?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

And I answered that by stating it would be exactly the same.

[Elok]

I could see some issues with reversed sexes. Consent becomes much more problematic with a twenty-year-old man and an eleven-year-old girl. As it is, I guess she could have provoked a purely physical reaction and then ridden the shameboner, but that seems dubious, especially if the boy is as mature for his age as the account suggests. If he looks fifteen, he's probably strong enough to shove her off easily, unless she does Muay Thai or something. By contrast, a girl who looks fifteen is still no match for a typical twenty-year-old man. We'd be essentially taking their word for it, and assuming that the sitter (or daddy, depending how FU'd the family is) didn't threaten her to keep her quiet, etc. Actually, it sounds like something vaguely similar happened even here; the kid didn't really like it, and felt it was wrong, but Dad argued for leniency anyway. If the sexes were reversed, it would be still more dubious IMO.

And then there's the whole issue of potential pregnancy . . .

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

What we have now is a system where each case is considered on its own merits with all relevant impacts on the victim taken into consideration. That's how it should be, and is what happened here. There is no need for blanket suppositions that a sex offence against a woman must inevitably be more serious than against a man.

[Uncle Sparky]

So... what if they were all males? ...Papa's young boyfriend bones 11 year old son when left alone... Still OK?

oh, the 11 year old still 'mature' in this scenario...

[OneFootInTheGrave]

That's very, very odd reasoning. Does having sex as a consenting adult render one incapable of being a responsible baby sitter?

Are you suggesting that the act of having sex leaves one a raging, lust-crazed animal, entirely at the urge of one's sexual impulses?

Is your proposed solution compulsory virginity tests for babysitters?

Does it include taking fathers - obviously biased - testimony into account when considering the sentence? For me it is not about future babysitter control, rather it is about getting away with it. Noone would care about her having the relationship with the father, as I am sure thousands do without legal or social repercussions - if she did not do the 11 yo son as well, while at the same time the court taking fathers testimony into account when handing out the light sentence. This makes it remarkable.

In other news, here is the mother coming out in the press.

The woman, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, said she felt utterly violated and blamed her ex for helping their son's abuser avoid a prison sentence.

She said: "He is not sex mad. He is 11 years old. Of course he is interested in girls, but that is how it is in the playground. It is girls his own age.

"This should be looked at the same as if this was a 21-year-old man having sex with a little girl. It is no different in my eyes, and she got away with it way too lightly. He is just a normal boy. He would rather be playing his computer games.
.
She added: "I want to try to get this pushed back into court. I think she should have gone to prison and there's no two ways about that.

"I have nothing to do with his dad any more; he helped her get off lightly. I was thinking she must go to prison, but the comments made by his dad helped her get away with it."
.
"I feel violated myself because this is my baby boy. It is just lucky for her I can't take the law into my own hands, and I won't. I have been left disgusted with his dad and the justice system.

"Jade is only a few years younger than me, and just because someone is immature for their age does not make it okay."

I do find it amazing, that even in such a small (but admittedly diverse) population as poly, there is always a rational guy taking an "interesting" position.

While it may take some more effort to demonstrate it, it is pretty clear to me that the woman got off incredibly lightly, and all due to boys fathers testimony (who is also her lover to close the love triangle, between her, him and the boy), which in my view must make it one of the greatest shambolic hits of British justice system, at least for this year, if not of a decade.