Socialism is the Future

[NICE MOBIUS]

The problem with Corbyn is that he actually is very old fashioned left wing. I'd have voted for him on his economic stuff because I think we need a major re-alignment but his position on Trident immediately rules out any possibility of me voting for him. That's the kind of crap that will prevent an awful lot of people from giving him their vote also.

Why is, if you'll excuse the pun, Trident your 'thin red line'?

Germany does just fine without nuclear weapons, so too does the rest of Europe, apart from France. Do we really need it THAT much!?

Conventional threats just aren't the same any more, if you witness Russia's conflict with Ukraine. Russia won't be rolling across Europe anytime soon. So basically you're worried about what? Russia one day deciding to nuke us without the possibility of retaliation?

My personal opinion re Trident is that we have it, so we might as well keep it while it is current, though I would certainly advocate a reduction in submarines to 3 maximum. I could also be easily persuaded to sign up for a much cheaper alternative to Trident (do we really need 200 warheads!?) - but I could also be persuaded to give up our nuclear weapons as well.

I had a bit of a rant on FB about it a few days ago, right now we need targeted radicalism, not just someone who will provide radical solutions to a huge swathe of things. If someone tried to completely remake our entire society they will fail, because most of us actually like quite a lot of our society. Concentrate on the economy and we might actually get somewhere.

Well obviously. I don't think that is what Corbyn is advocating - unless power were to get to his head. Most of what he is advocating is being successfully achieved in Germany - and that is good enough for me!

[NICE MOBIUS]

yes the contrast between the warnings that electing corbyn will destroy the labour party, and actually threatening to destroy the labour party if he's elected, has amused me greatly; the calls from the likes of john mann and simon danczuk to call off the election because someone they don't approve of might win it, even more so.

All proving that the Parliamentary Labour Party is spectacularly out of touch with its rank and file members! What they are suggesting is fervently anti-democracy to the extreme and massively disrespectful of the very people that made them MPs in the first place!

It seems to me, in a way that talking of a potential split is history repeating itself a la SDP. Yes Michael Foot lost and lost badly, but he was hamstrung () by the SDP split AND the wave of jingoism that Thatcher rode immediately following the victory in the Falklands.

The public appetite is there for a swing to the left - all you have to do is witness what has happened in Scotland.

[Bereta_Eder]

Well obviously. I don't think that is what Corbyn is advocating - unless power were to get to his head. Most of what he is advocating is being successfully achieved in Germany - and that is good enough for me!

So is that guy corbyn a right wing christian democrat?
Or do political affiliations don't matter?
strange

[NICE MOBIUS]

No. What I mean is not having nuclear weapons; state ownership; free university education; co-operative banks etc.

That sort of thing.

[Bereta_Eder]

Oh. Carry on then

What I found very interesting is turning the other guy's narrative against him like that martial arts move where you use the weight of your opponent to floor him?

I suspect that's what cockney is alluring to when he's saying that one should take the opponent out of his framed narrative.
It's very succesful no doubt.

[NICE MOBIUS]

Well exactly, once you have the likes of Blair gunning for you, your popularity can only increase!

And it's 'alluding', though I suppose you might find all this rather alluring...

[Bereta_Eder]

spelling is such a waste of time
but thanks

[NICE MOBIUS]

My... pleasure...

[Proteus_MST]

Well yes, but to the average layman in the US and UK, we're talking one step from Communism.

Isn´t the average layman in the US already thinking, germany is one step away from communism, because we have a public healthcare system and we have labour laws that set limits to the ability of companies to exploit their employees?

[C0ckney]

All proving that the Parliamentary Labour Party is spectacularly out of touch with its rank and file members! What they are suggesting is fervently anti-democracy to the extreme and massively disrespectful of the very people that made them MPs in the first place!

It seems to me, in a way that talking of a potential split is history repeating itself a la SDP. Yes Michael Foot lost and lost badly, but he was hamstrung () by the SDP split AND the wave of jingoism that Thatcher rode immediately following the victory in the Falklands.

The public appetite is there for a swing to the left - all you have to do is witness what has happened in Scotland.

i quite agree, the SNP won in scotland with a clear anti-austerity message. but for the same thing to happen across the UK, it will require that the dominant narrative in british politics be challenged. corbyn, and whether he wins loses the general election - and of all the candidates the tories should worry about him the most - has the ability to drag british politics to the left, simply by challenging that narrative. it's one thing for pressure groups, backed up by a small cadre of left-wing MPs, to talk about left-wing ideas; it's quite another for the leader of her majesty's opposition to do so. they will have to be given an audience and thus discussed; they will enter the mainstream almost by default.

as for a potential palace coup, i doubt it would actually happen. it would be too big a slap in the face for the membership, and would probably split and eventually destroy the party. i suspect what will happen is a whispering campaign, briefing to the media, and lots of rebellions against the leadership by voting with the government.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I shall not take this seriously until someone posts a Soviet realism type poster that says "Socialism is the Future"

[OneFootInTheGrave]

I could only come up with this:




unlike Jeremy and Bernie, China is actually socialist.

[NICE MOBIUS]

Isn´t the average layman in the US already thinking, germany is one step away from communism, because we have a public healthcare system and we have labour laws that set limits to the ability of companies to exploit their employees?

Those damned communists with their really long holiday entitlements...

[NICE MOBIUS]

Ish...

Though it didn't help the Greeks much.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Not good enough

Increase production!!