[civil] "Greece moves closer to eurozone exit after delaying €300m repayment to IMF "

[Bereta_Eder]

Excellent.

I think though that it's going to fail because it was used as a vehicle to neoliberize europe the way the US is. Such depravity is outside the european mindset and that's why it's failing.

Maybe it will stop failing when it stops being used as such a vehicle.

[Sir Og]

Can you name one neoliberal European policy from the last 5 years?

[Bereta_Eder]

It's nothing but neoliberal policies.
It's ingrained in the treaties (i.e. no national airliners, utilies, no state subsidies to a series of industries etc these are all neoliberal policies engraved in treaites to serve the signle market but that's fine assuming you have inplace a system of wealth distribution which you don't).

However the last 5 years a mosntrocity without even the limited democratic legitimacy of the EU was formed (the troika) which basically destroyed the south of europe through a combination of hard line neoliberal policies (eradicate the state of everything) and harsh austerity (huge tax hikes, huge wage cuts).
in the case of greece it got even more ugly because the debt was huge and instead of cutting it the IMF agreed to enter the EU without doing so, thus violating its mandate. From that point on it was nothing but disaster upon disaster.
All to save the euro. And nothing else.

however the eurozone remains flawed, its structural imbalances still are unaddressed so you are simply using a rag to stop a pipe that has broken and needs proper fixing. (but many say there simply is no way to do that)

[Bereta_Eder]

ze germans have benefited immensly from this flawed scheme but at the same time are exposed to a series of lending liabilities that if they are to blast off in their face, germany will crumble.
it uses the EU's system to export (she's an export junkie) in a distorted market where under normal circumstances its products would be much much more expensive.
Meanwhile there's no wealth redistribution system.

noone wants to admit or knows how to fix this system. it was created not to start a 3rd world war that germany ritualistically starts every some decades. europe's history is a history of recicled suicides under the helm of germany.

france thought it could change that if she put germany under political control. germany's reunification changed that.

also the nationalization of debt has inevitavly pinned nation agaisnt nation (actually all nations agaisnt germany, which merely entered the EU because after ww2 she wanted friends).

it's a perfect historical irony and little greece is caught at the middle of this ****stom with its own reformative drawbacks (which are ritualistically overstated so that they convince some few guilibble guys that the sky is not blue)

bare in mind that every single thing of all of this was done with the best intentions in mind. the road to hell is paved with them.

[Sir Og]

There is nothing liberal in Europe.
Everything is so regulated and there is a ton of subsidies, quotas etc.
Most labour markets are on the opposite side of liberal. Maybe with the exception of Germany, but even they introduced a minimum wage from this year.
EU countries have some of the highest "government spending"/GDP ratios in the world.

What's liberal/free market about that?

[dannubis]

It is not to the extreme left of the political spectrum so obviously it is neo liberal. Get on the program!

[pchang]

Like I said, the real reason the Euro will fail is because you are not ready for political union. All your posts about "Ze Germans" and how it is "Us" against "Ze Germans" just proves my point. In addition, I have spoken to plenty of Germans who are tired of subsidizing "those Greeks", so really the problem is everywhere. You Europeans are still just way too nationalistic.

[Aeson]

What got the US ready for a political union that could last (at least for a while) was a civil war. Crush the opposition and they'll have to go along with your vision of the union.

[Dinner]

Crushing the slave holding south was the best thing this country ever did.

[Bereta_Eder]

I'm so middle of the road I run the risk of getting run over by a car.

And US has nothing in common with Europe.
You just killed a bunch of indians and then sat on the land because you were to conservative to fit in Europe.
Also due to historical reasons it's highly unlikely that you'd present a shining piece of mirror to a person from europe and you'll convince him to give you his land.

Lastly, death is the final liberation. Why dinner thinks that people don't accept it and that's strange, then it's his issue.

[Bereta_Eder]

There is nothing liberal in Europe.
Everything is so regulated and there is a ton of subsidies, quotas etc.
Most labour markets are on the opposite side of liberal. Maybe with the exception of Germany, but even they introduced a minimum wage from this year.
EU countries have some of the highest "government spending"/GDP ratios in the world.

What's liberal/free market about that?

The only remaining subsidies are in agriculture and they are phased out as well.
Germany is regulated enough although they follow an economic model known as something like hertvzasdasd IV which basically condemns about 1/5 of their population in utter poverty. It's not a good model.
They have kept their salaries stable for 10 years and their wages are so low the gov. has to step up and fill the void.

Labour laws are under constant pressure from all sides who think that a bagladeshian wage is going to spur growth and Italy still doesn't have a minimum wage.

They also now have a beef with collective bargaining.
It's basically neoliberalism running amok destroying societies. That simple.

[giblets]

I'm so middle of the road I run the risk of getting run over by a car.

And US has nothing in common with Europe.
You just killed a bunch of indians and then sat on the land because you were to conservative to fit in Europe.

How exactly was America more conservative than Europe before the French Revolution/Napoleon even happened?

Were Irish people coming to America to escape from poverty because the English had taken all the land just too conservative to fit in Ireland?

Your interpretation of history makes no sense.

[Bereta_Eder]

Religion.
I'm talking about its birth (and present).


Afterwards sure, the ones who came there were the poor or those wanting a better life.

"My" interpratation?

[giblets]

Religion.
I'm talking about its birth (and present).


Afterwards sure, the ones who came there were the poor or those wanting a better life.

"My" interpratation?

The first colony in Virginia had nothing to do with religion. The founders of Plymouth were religiously motivated but that doesn't mean a whole lot considering that Massachusetts was only one out of 13 colonies. It didn't take long for Plymouth to be overshadowed by Boston either. The fact that Massachusetts was very religious in the 17th century doesn't mean it was in the 18th century or still is today.

[pchang]

Stop buzzkilling Paiktis' rants with facts.

PS WooHoo! New elections!