This is why I love Boris Johnson

[kentonio]

kentonio.

Super. Because that's exactly what I didn't do. I said he was less intelligent than Magnus Pyke. Perhaps you should have looked him up.

You're quite right, it was C0ckney. My apologies.

However I still find your characterization of Boris as 'honest' to be very amusing.

I believe I framed the word honest quite carefully.

[regexcellent]

Is there a reason you are going to such absurd lengths to defend HC's mistake?

Just establishing what we consider to be a colony. I don't have a particularly rigorous definition to offer, but under Dauphin's definition both French Algeria and French Guiana would not be colonies, while the Channel Islands would be.

[Dauphin]

I would consider French Guiana a colony on that definition. It's an ocean away. The Channel Islands are proximate enough to the UK to not be colonies, but I wouldn't object, given that they are dependencies and not a part of the UK.

I could consider French Algeria not a colony due to proximity as well.

[regexcellent]

French Guiana has full representation in the French government, and French Algeria did too, as much as Hawaii does in the US government now.

I think Mozambique and Angola did too.

[Dauphin]

All French overseas territories do. I don't think that they aren't colonies just because of that logic though.

[regexcellent]

Yeah, but you said that colonies are non-sovereign territories geographically separated from the sovereign country ruling them.


VVV Yes they were but I think the Portuguese afforded them seats in whatever passed for a legislature in the Salazar era.

[Dauphin]

French Guiana has full representation in the French government, and French Algeria did too, as much as Hawaii does in the US government now.

I think Mozambique and Angola did too.

Angola and Mozambique were Portuguese.

Edit - Though you may have meant that implicitly.

[Dauphin]

Yeah, but you said that colonies are non-sovereign territories geographically separated from the sovereign country ruling them.

I said the home territory, not the sovereign country. As opposed to overseas territory.

E.g. French Guiana is not a sovereign state, and is not geographically proximate to metropolitan France.

[Hauldren Collider]

I should be more specific. Yes, Guam can be considered a colony, but I'm restricting colony to the type where you have the native population as second-class citizens below a local administration run (almost) exclusively by immigrants from the colonizing power, like British India. With Guam, Puerto Rico, etc, they basically govern themselves except for matters of federal law. They have more autonomy than Washington, DC. The local government is run by locals. They aren't extractive colonies the way British Africa was.

[Colonâ„¢]

I should be more specific. Yes, Guam can be considered a colony, but I'm restricting colony to the type where you have the native population as second-class citizens below a local administration run (almost) exclusively by immigrants from the colonizing power, like British India. With Guam, Puerto Rico, etc, they basically govern themselves except for matters of federal law. They have more autonomy than Washington, DC. The local government is run by locals. They aren't extractive colonies the way British Africa was.

Judging by your definition you seem to be saying that Europe isn't a colony either.

[Dauphin]

I should be more specific. Yes, Guam can be considered a colony, but I'm restricting colony to the type where you have the native population as second-class citizens below a local administration run (almost) exclusively by immigrants from the colonizing power, like British India. With Guam, Puerto Rico, etc, they basically govern themselves except for matters of federal law. They have more autonomy than Washington, DC. The local government is run by locals. They aren't extractive colonies the way British Africa was.

Does united fruit and the banana republics fall under your definition?

[molly bloom]

Just establishing what we consider to be a colony.

The difference in the case of the good ol' U.S. of Amnesia is really between de jure and de facto colonies. Admittedly, the Yanquis acquired their colonies late and secondhand, but nonetheless they were still colonies, and if you either you or your equally ignorant relative knew your American history better, you'd know that in the 1898 war against Spain, there were plenty of Americans who believed their government was being just as imperialist as all those decadent Euros it was always claiming to be different from.

But let's have a defintive statement on this:

American colonial assemblies in certain territories acquired after 1898 were restricted in what they could and could not do. They could take tax revenue, had virtually identical constitutions, based on that exemplary model, that of the U.S. .

They also had a governor and an elected legislature, with two chambers. Gosh, how democratic you're thinking.

They were despite appearances no different in reality from European colonies- their governors acted for the U.S. President, taking their orders from that outhouse of bureaucracy, surrounded by a moat.

The U.S. constitution meant the head of state was the executive authority, so the governors of the territories did not have to act on the 'advice' of their executive councils.

The colonial assemblies could pass laws relating to domestic issues, but the governor had the power of veto. If the governor's vote should unfortunately encounter a two-thirds majority in the assembly (which could theoretically override the governor) then the U.S. President had power of veto.

The American Congress could pass law on any subject or for any issue in the territories and annul any act passed by a territorial assembly.

Smaller territories acquired for strategic purposes (such as Guam) were administered by the Navy, through naval officers with autocratic powers.

In 1934 to clear up the administrative mess, a Division of Territories and Inland Possessions was established within the Department of the Interior, to deal with all dependencies save for Guam and American Samoa (also run by the Navy) and the Panama Canal Zone which was run by the Army.


I do hope this has cleared up some of the mental confusion you may have been experiencing.

[Bereta_Eder]

You're confusing class and income. To be upper class in the United Kingdom does not necessarily imply one is loaded.

Very true. I have my own way of interpreting those things that may not be the norm in a wider scale.

[Dinner]

Apparently old Boris owes something like $180,000 to the US government in back taxes which he is refusing to pay.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

He is a conservative after all - unwillingness to pay taxes should not be a surprise.