The ongoing ISIS massacres

[Sava]

yeah
plus if they are christian they are going to heaven by default

so it's not like being butchered is the worst thing in the world

IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE

[Nikolai]

They should GTFO. I'd welcome them with open arms if they wanted to come to America.

I'm sick of eurotrash always whining for America to go police the world while simultaneously calling us imperialists and whatnot.

Let the Norwegians deal with it, if you mofos want. Either that or start paying us some taxes, ****er

I'm pro-America. And I call for all Western countries(and others for that matter) to intervene.

[Nikolai]

And for the record, a group of oppressed people being slaughtered do not have to be Christian before I'm outraged about it, and speaking out against such crimes; they just have to be human beings. So your question you asked me, Nikolai, seemed to have implied that I should be especially concerned because this group of victims are Christian, and because I'm also a Christian, but all that needs to be true, is the fact that they are human beings.

What say you, Nikolai?

All minorities murdered get my concern. As a Christian, I feel a special bond with my Christian siblings over there. Your post implied you didn't care for the ones in trouble, Christian or not. Is it really that hard to see that one can feel especially for one own's family, even though one feel with all? You say you are a Christian, and I'd like to belive you on that, naturally. Then I also expect you to care for them like if they were Jesus, as Jesus himself asked us to in the gospels.

[MrFun]

All minorities murdered get my concern. As a Christian, I feel a special bond with my Christian siblings over there. Your post implied you didn't care for the ones in trouble, Christian or not. Is it really that hard to see that one can feel especially for one own's family, even though one feel with all? You say you are a Christian, and I'd like to belive you on that, naturally. Then I also expect you to care for them like if they were Jesus, as Jesus himself asked us to in the gospels.

Well, you insulted me with your expressed misunderstanding of my earlier post - you assumed that because I think Iraq should be broken up, that I also did not care about the Christians being slaughtered.

But yes, I do care, as Jesus had taught to care for EVERYONE, including those who did not believe. The United States and other countries should have intervened a lot sooner, to stop the slaughtering. Any inaction against this crime against humanity is just as bad as siding with the perpetrators of the slaughtering.

[Sava]

I'm pro-America.

Seems like you are pro-America-is-my-country's-security-service.

[Nikolai]

Then I misunderstood you and I am sorry for that. This is something that affects me deeply on an emotional and religious level. Glad you agree something needs to be done yesterday.

[Nikolai]

Seems like you are pro-America-is-my-country's-security-service.

Bull.

[Nikolai]

Nearly three-and-a-half years ago, before the “Arab Spring” and the plight of Christians became much of a topic, I wrote a FrontPage article titled “The Silent Extermination of Iraq’s ‘Christian Dogs.’” Revisiting it is useful, as it highlights some important points. The article follows below in italics, with new observations interspersed in regular font:


Last week [April, 2011] an Iraqi Muslim scholar issued a fatwa that, among other barbarities, asserts that “it is permissible to spill the blood of Iraqi Christians.” Inciting as the fatwa is, it is also redundant. While last October’s Baghdad church attack which killed some sixty Christians is widely known—actually receiving some MSM coverage—the fact is, Christian life in Iraq has been a living hell ever since U.S. forces ousted the late Saddam Hussein in 2003.


The important point here is that the plight of Iraq’s Christians did not just begin under the Islamic State, as many seem to believe, but rather from the very first day the (secular) autocrat was removed.


Among other atrocities, beheading and crucifying Christians are not irregular occurrences; messages saying “you Christian dogs, leave or die,” are typical. Islamists see the church as an “obscene nest of pagans” and threaten to “exterminate Iraqi Christians.” John Eibner, CEO of Christian Solidarity International, summarized the situation well in a recent letter to President Obama:


“The threat of extermination is not empty. Since the collapse of Saddam Hussein’s regime, more than half the country’s Christian population has been forced by targeted violence to seek refuge abroad or to live away from their homes as internally displaced people. According to the Hammurabi Human Rights Organization, over 700 Christians, including bishops and priests, have been killed and 61 churches have been bombed. Seven years after the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Catholic Archbishop Louis Sako of Kirkuk reports: ‘He who is not a Muslim in Iraq is a second-class citizen. Often it is necessary to convert or emigrate, otherwise one risks being killed.’ This anti-Christian violence is sustained by a widespread culture of Muslim supremacism that extends far beyond those who pull the triggers and detonate the bombs.”


Again, more confirmation that the savage persecution of Christians in Iraq—including recent acts of genocide and expulsions—is not a product of the Islamic State, but rather something more homegrown, more—how shall we say?—integral to Muslims unloosed from the grips of secularized dictators?


The grand irony, of course, is that Christian persecution has increased exponentially under U.S. occupation. As one top Vatican official put it, Christians, “paradoxically, were more protected under the dictatorship” of Saddam Hussein.


What does one make of this—that under Saddam, who was notorious for human rights abuses, Christians were better off than they are under a democratic government sponsored by humanitarian, some would say “Christian,” America?


Although I first suggested over three years ago that Christian minorities are the first to suffer whenever the U.S. intervenes in Islamic nations—evincing the types of people the U.S. ends up empowering—this notion is now an ironclad fact, with other examples to add to Iraq, including Libya, Syria, and Egypt, under Obama allies, the Muslim Brotherhood.


Like a Baghdad caliph, Saddam appears to have made use of the better educated Christians, who posed no risk to his rule, such as his close confidant Tariq Aziz. Moreover, by keeping a tight lid on the Islamists of his nation—who hated him as a secular apostate no less than the Christians—the latter benefited indirectly.


Conversely, by empowering “the people,” the U.S. has unwittingly undone Iraq’s Christian minority. Naively projecting Western values on Muslims, U.S. leadership continues to think that “people-power” will naturally culminate into a liberal, egalitarian society—despite all the evidence otherwise. The fact is, in the Arab/Muslim world, “majority rule” traditionally means domination by the largest tribe or sect; increasingly, it means Islamist domination.


Either which way, the minorities—notably the indigenous Christians—are the first to suffer once the genie of “people-power” is uncorked. Indeed, evidence indicates that the U.S. backed “democratic” government of Iraq enables and incites the persecution of its Christians. (All of this raises the pivotal question: Do heavy-handed tyrants—Saddam, Mubarak, Qaddafi, et al—create brutal societies, or do naturally brutal societies create the need for heavy-handed tyrants to keep order?)


Again, a reminder that it is not just the Islamic State that persecutes Christians, but even the U.S. installed government of Iraq. Moreover, a few months after the above was written, the government of “liberated” Afghanistan destroyed the last Christian church—entirely under U.S. auspices.


Another indicator that empowering Muslim masses equates Christian suffering is the fact that, though Iraqi Christians amount to a mere 5% of the population, they make up nearly 40% of the refugees fleeing Iraq. It is now the same in Egypt: “A growing number of Egypt’s 8-10 million Coptic Christians are looking for a way to get out as Islamists increasingly take advantage of the nationalist revolution that toppled long-standing dictator Hosni Mubarak in February.”


At least Egypt’s problems are homegrown, whereas the persecution of Iraq’s Christians is a direct byproduct of U.S. intervention. More ironic has been Obama’s approach: Justifying U.S. intervention in Libya largely in humanitarian terms, the president recently declared that, while “it is true that America cannot use our military wherever repression occurs… that cannot be an argument for never acting on behalf of what’s right.”


Indeed, and we have since seen what Obama’s “humanitarian” actions in Libya have led to—the empowerment of Islamists and jihadis, evinced from things like the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi and the dramatic rise of Christian persecution. Since Obama “liberated” Libya, Christians—including Americans—have been tortured and killed (including for refusing to convert) and churches bombed. And it’s “open season” on Copts, as jihadis issue a reward to Muslims who find and kill Christians. This was hardly the case under Gaddafi.


True, indeed. Yet, as Obama “acts on behalf of what’s right” by providing military protection to the al-Qaeda connected Libyan opposition, Iraq’s indigenous Christians continue to be exterminated—right under the U.S. military’s nose in Iraq. You see, in its ongoing bid to win the much coveted but forever elusive “Muslim-hearts-and-minds™”—which Obama has even tasked NASA with—U.S. leadership has opted to ignore the inhumane treatment of Islam’s “Christian dogs,” the mere mention of which tends to upset Muslims.


And now the job is largely done, as Christians and other religious minorities are being cleansed from large parts of Iraq, not to mention much of the Islamic world.


Raymond Ibrahim is a Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center, a Judith Friedman Rosen Writing Fellow at the Middle East Forum and a CBN News contributor. He is the author of Crucified Again: Exposing Islam’s New War on Christians (2013) and The Al Qaeda Reader (2007).





Revisiting “The Silent Extermination of Iraq’s ‘Christian Dogs’”

https://www.document.no/2014/08/nytt...ristne-hunder/

[Elok]

according to whom and why?

Sundry editorials, on the grounds that, while Iraq is roughly divided by ethnic group, the blocs are far from monolithic, there's tons of intermarriage, and everybody's been where they are for umpteen generations.

'we may not **** it up so badly this time' doesn't sound like a very positive case.

Actually, it's more "it's hard to fathom how we could make the situation worse than it will be without any intervention."

just to be clear i fully support the west providing humanitarian aid and taking in refugees. the kurds (who are certainly not above a bit of 'we are in trouble, please send us some guns and bombs uncle sam!') will be alright. as has already been noted ISIS struggles in non-sunni arab areas and/or where they meet stiff resistance, and they kurds can provide plenty of that. we can look at the performance of the much poorer and meagerly equipped syrian kurdish forces (YPG) against ISIS as an example.

The Iraqi Kurds were in trouble before we intervened; they were losing towns rapidly. Possibly they would have retaken them soon, but possibly not, and likely not before a few dozen more massacres. I don't think we stand to gain by a full-fledged invasion or anything; that would just put us back where we were in '06 or so. I favor blowing up any of their forces that move outside a city and leaving the ground fighting to the locals. Also, I've read widely varying estimates of their strength, but supposedly the Iraqis think they have 50K and counting. If so, they've got to be spending an easy million a week just feeding and housing them, not counting fuel, supplies, basic goods and services for their populace, etc. So I'd advise offering bounties for any desert tribes who rat out an oil-smuggling convoy in time for us to blow it to hell. They're not paying for all that with bank raids; if nothing else, they'll run out of banks. What to do about Syria, I don't know. Probably we'll have to sigh and team up with Assad eventually.

With, of course, the usual proviso that I don't know anything about military ops.

[Sava]

Bull.

I'm pretty sure you want Americans to deliver your mail, fight your fires, and arrest your criminals, too.

you entitled motherrunner

[Uncle Sparky]

I'm sick of eurotrash always whining for America to go police the world while simultaneously calling us imperialists and whatnot...
Either that or start paying us some taxes, ****er

"The United States’ worldwide system of corporate taxation requires multinational corporations to pay taxes twice, first to the foreign country in which they do business and then to the IRS after they repatriate their profits." Therefore if I shop at an American owned store in Canada, or buy gas at a US owned station, a percentage of what I pay will go to the IRS. So, Do Our Bidding, Yankees! And we want representation!!!

[Dinner]

We should annex Canada. That would solve the double taxation issue. :yes:

[Uncle Sparky]

Want us to burn down your White House again?

[DinoDoc]

Want us to burn down your White House again?

The Brits claim they did that.

[Kidlicious]

Want us to burn down your White House again?

Shouldn't you burn the IRS down this time?