Euro Court of Human Rights loses its ****ing mind over Niqabs

[Uncle Sparky]

So... if you say you wear the niqab 'for health reasons', it is legal?

[Bereta_Eder]

This ruling can't "force" countries that participate on ECHR to apply it, anyway.
So I guess it would depend on each country indivindually.
I find it hard to think of a health reason for which only the niqab is the cure though.
But again I'm no expert.

It depends on country's fundemental cultural traits , I'd guess.
France has an extra strong state of secularism. Religion is a personal matter which must be completely separate from the state.
Turkey IS a muslim country (which had actually a ban on some variations of scarfs)
In some muslim countries niqab is considered extreme but tolerated, in others it is the norm.

In Greece for example, it is easy to identify muslim women from the north east of the country because of the head scarf (not niqab though, it's not in their religious culture) and they wear it proudly in athens, next to scadily clad women because of summer (which could also be muslims). The culture is mostly of extra institutional compromises (as with lots of other things )

So I guess each country's culture treads (but also so called "security risks") set the overall laws.


I wear a niqab because of religious reasons seems a strong argument, because of health reasons seems a bit weak.


ECHR is sort of "seeing in which way the wind blows" judicially (and in such cases morally) and get only moral vindication for your cause.

BUT, this ruling can weight in future court cases. It is a verdict that should be seriously taken under consideration from national courts. And then throw it in the dust bin, if they choose.
Also notice that the ECHR ruled differently for france and differently for turkey. A country's culture IS taken into consideration.

[kentonio]

I find it hard to think of a health reason for which only the niqab is the cure though.

Acute ugliness?

[Bereta_Eder]

In that case showing extra bits of boobs to divert attention is also a winning strategy

[kentonio]

[Sava]

So... if you say you were the niqab 'for health reasons', it is legal?

If I was a niqab, I doubt the legality of my transformation would be an issue.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

So... if you say you were the niqab 'for health reasons', it is legal?

They could wear a surgical face-mask, achieving exactly the same result as the niqab. Apparently that is now happening in France.

[Uncle Sparky]

What if the reason is, "My husband will beat me if I don't wear a niqab."... That sounds like a legit health reason.

[Dinner]

They could wear a surgical face-mask, achieving exactly the same result as the niqab. Apparently that is now happening in France.

To be fair, a surgical mask only covers the nose and mouth while the niqab covers the entire head except the eyes so, no, they aren't even remotely the same.

[Sava]

To be fair, a surgical mask only covers the nose and mouth while the niqab covers the entire head except the eyes so, no, they aren't even remotely the same.

Top Google Image Search result for "surgical mask"

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

And this-



Legal in France.

[N35t0r]

Well, hopefully. I wouldn't want surgeons to operate wearing mickey mouse masks...

[Dr Strangelove]

And this-



Legal in France.

Wouldn't that technically function as a substitute for a niqab? Couldn't an enterprising medical supply firm produce the headgear and mask in black? For that matter does it really have to be black?

[molly bloom]

Wouldn't that technically function as a substitute for a niqab? Couldn't an enterprising medical supply firm produce the headgear and mask in black? For that matter does it really have to be black?

Around here all the fashionista young Muslim women have animal print headscarves and so on. Elaborate hairdos underneath too.

Lots of black chadors and niqabs as well. Occasionally resembles a camping ground in a hurricane. Or families of migrating black binbags.

[Bereta_Eder]

I saw once a full burka in a muslim country. That had a chilling effect because to me that was translated like extreme oppression.
In France, the ban had the effect of these women being in effect in house confinement.
I think many would go to england or to such countries where there is no such ban.

The right to communication (and the effetcs niqab had on that) was heard in england as well. A muslim girl said "this is england, we are not france", in disdain.
Meaning that there things are more liberal.
These are two different cultures. But also one has to take into account the amount of people that are doing it.

if in a neighborhood in athens there are many women with a headscarf, there's no big deal. It is regarded as a culture thing.
if a neighborhood gets full with women that wear niqab that could raise some hair.


one can see a niqab and say: we're liberal country, we let it be
another can see it and say: that's an extreme form of oppression. Not on my watch.